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CM Club: OFSTED considers it a confidentiality issue to tell me how many 'CHildcare on Domestic Premises' registrations there are in Norfolk

(43 Posts)
Katymac Fri 30-Oct-09 14:20:00

I can't work out why

I don't want to know who they are? Or where they are? Just how many there are

How bizarre

squirrel42 Fri 30-Oct-09 14:53:02

Who did you ask? Was it someone at the telephone contact centre or did you put in a written/emailed request under the Freedom of Information Act? I don't see why that would be personal information that should be witheld; it's just stats.

Katymac Fri 30-Oct-09 15:12:31

I know

I have requested it in writing (expecting an answer 3 weeks next Tuesday)- I addressed it to the press office as it is for a press release

I was just so shocked as I can find the info off the website if I had time to trawl through 123 pages....but I'm too lazy

HerBewitcheditude Fri 30-Oct-09 15:19:41

It's a kneejerk secrecy response from a govt agency, doesn't surprise me at all. Can't be arsed to look for the file? Mumble something about confidentiality or insurance or data protection or child protection, that should do it.

Norfolk's a funny place. Very flat I believe. wink

(there was a very funny woman on the Jeremy Vine show today going on about how it's a hotbed of adultery, apropos of that tory woman who has been selected as a candidate and had an affair with someone 4 years ago. Anyway, I digress, good luck with finding out this highly secret information, I hope no-one feels they need to kill you once you've got it.)

Katymac Fri 30-Oct-09 15:27:48

I agree about both of those - gov dept's generally knee jerk & Norfolk is again both funny & flat grin

Maybe I should stop asking in case?

I think I am the second or third which is a shame

nannynick Fri 30-Oct-09 15:58:39

Ask your area FIS. Their new computer thingy will know, even if it isn't yet publishing data to Direct.Gov

Katymac Fri 30-Oct-09 16:47:22

Nick....tut...tut...tut - I did - they aren't sure wink; mind you they weren't even sure what CDP wasshock

Katymac Fri 30-Oct-09 17:37:27

Head.....brickwall....nervous breakdown

I sent them an email
“I am currently applying to become 'Childcare on Domestic Premises' when we get this new registration we would like to make a press release to the local papers.

Could you tell me how many 'Childcare on Domestic Premises' there are in Norfolk, and how many in the Great Yarmouth area so I can provide the press with the correct information?”

They sent me this reply:
"Thank you for your e-mail.

The Ofsted website includes a page with useful information dedicated to parents. You may access this by clicking the following link: Parents and Carers

In addition to this, you may wish to view the direct.Gov website at: http://childcarefinder.direct.gov.uk/childcarefinder/

If you would like to review any of the childcare reports please go to Inspection reports on the Ofsted website. Here you may search by Unique Reference Number (URN) if known or find local settings via a postcode search.

To perform a postcode search find the 'Search by postcode' section (left of page), select the appropriate provider type and enter either your own postcode or the postcode for the setting into the 'Enter your postcode' box. Finally select the search radius and then press 'Search'. This will list providers of the selected type within the defined radius.

I hope that the information provided is of help to you.

However, should you require any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us."

Are the 2 connected in any way?

I am going to have to demand this info as part of a 'freedom of information' request aren't I?

Danthe4th Fri 30-Oct-09 18:46:36

Get the paper to contact the press office they may have more luck, it sounds more like they can't be arsed to help you.
Or turn it round and ask if they can confirm there are 34 cdp's in the area.

squirrel42 Fri 30-Oct-09 18:57:43

Don't worry FOI requests aren't scary - the law is there to [allegedly] help in cases like this! Either send it to the standard enquiries address and put the words "freedom" "of" and "information" in there some combination to give them a clue where it's supposed to be sent, or cut out the middleman and send it straight to informationrequest - at - ofsted.gov.uk. FOI requests must be responded to within 20 working days (tis the law!) and getting stats like that shouldn't take tooooo long (someone just needs to search the database against Norfolk).

squirrel42 Fri 30-Oct-09 19:02:28

Just a bit extra to the above - under FOI you have a right to information that Ofsted holds provided it isn't exempt (eg. someone else's personal info, something confidential, something that might damage commercial interests, etc). Stats on the numbers of a certain type of childcare providers in a certain area is info that Ofsted has and 99% certain it shouldn't be exempt. If you wanted a list of the providers and their addresses, that would be exempt because it's personal info, but just the basic "there's 63 of them" - a-OK for you to have.

Just out of personal interest - in what context do you want to use the number? To show how rare/common that type of childcare is or to just generally tell parents how many there are in explaining what the hell it is when they've never heard of it before? wink

Katymac Fri 30-Oct-09 19:14:10

So that I can tell the paper I'm the only one in the East Norfolk area? or that I'm only the 3rd registered in Norfolk - to try & get inches in the paper for advertising publicity

What I tell parents I haven't got a clue

NO-ONE knows what it it or what it's for; I'm not even sure if I am a Nursery now or not

nannynick Sat 31-Oct-09 12:59:40

Well using Ofsted website, looks like there is One in Norfolk - See here

Only 96 in whole of England - See here.

If Ofsted won't provide any other info, then you could use this info as it IS what their website is showing, even if it may be wrong. You can screenshot the webpage and keep as evidence, should anyone challenge the figure.

nannynick Sat 31-Oct-09 13:06:31

Ofsted has provided stats on number of providers as responses to House of Commons questions... so you could search Hansard... but I doubt a specific question as been asked in relation to Childcare on Domestic premises.

Note with regard to my previous post, the Ofsted website I think may be out of date by around a month, maybe a week - it's not clear as to how often the data is updated.

A search using the Inspection Report search facility... entering your postcode and selecting 20 miles, will also give a similar result - though isn't then just providers in East of England, or Norfolk.

Looking at it, I think you are the second provider to be registered in that category in Norfolk. Ofsted is showing just one entry... registered a year ago... so once your entry is uploaded to the database, expect it will show them and you.

Katymac Sat 31-Oct-09 15:13:09

Thanks Nick - unfortunately we know there are already 2, so we are not quite sure where the other one is.

Does that one look a bit odd to you?

nannynick Sat 31-Oct-09 15:28:42

Yes a bit odd... no more than 3 children under 8. Hmm... wonder if it is a CM in the wrong category.

Katymac Sat 31-Oct-09 15:38:22

CIS are sure there are at least 2 hmm but not sure if there are any more

How do you think I should phrase my email to direct.gov to ask about their classifications?

nannynick Sat 31-Oct-09 16:36:00

Direct.gov - don't bother... they don't seem to respond very quickly to enquiries - took 12 days for them to respond when I asked them about PHKD.

I would just go with the figure produced by CIS. Doubt anyone would question the figure anyway. If they do... you can say that CIS told you there were already 2 existing providers.

Katymac Sat 31-Oct-09 19:26:09

I guess

Do you know I did this to help the parents at the out-of-school club & not one of them has phoned/emailed me

So I have all these extra places (12 under 5 shock) & no extra children

CIs has been giving out my number, so I think there is a problem somewhere

nannynick Sat 31-Oct-09 23:13:39

I'm not surprised... I did try to warn you not to do anything until you had been to the meeting.

CIS have been giving your number to whom? Maybe the same people wanting just after-school care... maybe they want something very low cost - did you find out how much their previous (now insolvent I guess) provider was charging?

Katymac Sat 31-Oct-09 23:44:09

Well they charged £10 for a 10 hr day in the holidays - so you can interrpulate (sp??) from that

Never mind it only cost £30 & it means I can have more littles

nannynick Sat 31-Oct-09 23:59:52

No wonder then if the parents are wanting childcare for £1 an hour. No wonder the provider went bust.

Littlies (is that even a word) are the way to go... at least the birth rate seems to be going up - when the country is in recession, adults have to find something free to do!

Katymac Sun 01-Nov-09 00:04:01

3 extra at potentially no additional adult cost (as nursery ratio) means quite a profit.....or perhaps a nervous breakdown

We will see - I need to find the new children first

nannynick Sun 01-Nov-09 00:17:43

3 extra full timers, no additional staff costs - oh yes, you start making a profit. Though the place will become a mad house (if it isn't one already grin).

Finding the children may be tricky given your location - any passing traffic you could appeal to? Wonder if people drive from home towards the city passing through your village... maybe, never know.

Katymac Sun 01-Nov-09 00:27:21

Definitely & if not through past (on A149 or A1064) but I can't 'see' an obvious place to advertise - you know "WC 1km this way" except on the side of a pub & I am a bit hmm about that

I did wonder about trying the "Norfolk" magazine but I think I am too small for them

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