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If a registered Childminder comes to my home can they stay as a 'Childminder';?

(21 Posts)
munteria Wed 28-Oct-09 12:25:23

Hi there

we have met a great childminder. an option is that they may be able to come to our house to look after our two children when I go back to work.

If they come to my house can their status stay as 'childminder' i.e self-employed, or would they become a 'nanny'? obviously we would need to get insurence for them as they wouldnt be insured at our house.

does anyone have any experience of this?

thanks

Bramshott Wed 28-Oct-09 12:36:32

I think you are right - if they come to your house, they are a nanny, and you have to pay their tax & NI etc.

hanaflower Wed 28-Oct-09 12:43:33

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

nannynick Wed 28-Oct-09 12:59:31

In theory a childminder can register any domestic premises as the place at which they provide care. However if only caring for the children at that home, I don't think it would qualify.
No reason why they can't be a nanny working at your home, and being a childminder when working at their home.
If just caring for your children at you home, easiest registration type will be Nanny. Quicker regiistration process, exempt from EYFS. They would be your employee so you can tell them what to do, rather than them telling you what you have to do.

munteria Wed 28-Oct-09 13:34:58

hi

thanks for this. i rang my local FIS and they said that the childminder could still be self-employed and i wouldnt have to pay the tax and NI? bit confused!

she is already registered as a childminder, and i guess if she works mon-thurs for us she could still take children as a minder on friday at her own home

islandofsodor Wed 28-Oct-09 13:46:04

It depends on how she works for you. Part of the reason why childminders are self employed is that have a big degree of choice in how they work. They can choose which hours to offer, they have multiple children (obviously depending on OFSTED etc.)

A nanny coming to your own home generally has her hours dictated by you, her tasks are set by you, (a childminder chooses where to go and when and what activities to offer) and is not able to send a subsititute if unavailable.

Usually only temporary or matenity nannies class as self employed under inland revenue rules.

Family Information Services are not experts on tax and employment law.

xoxcherylxox Wed 28-Oct-09 13:49:35

in scotland childminders can go to other peoples house to watch the children and still be a childminder i dont no if it can be allowed if it is an everyday thing and only your children being cared for but if she has other children then maybe ok. i no childminders who watch children through the day then when the other children go home they can take the child to their own house make din get them ready for bed and wait till parents come in they dont need to register as anything other than a childminder.a childminders insurance covers them where ever they take the child and can also cover babysitting in the childs home if they fill in the babysitting checklist

nannynick Wed 28-Oct-09 14:12:30

In England, I don't think Ofsted will permit a childminder to have two setting addresses, so the childminder will need to choose at which home they provide childminding.
I think FIS are getting you confused as while they are right, the person would need to register your home as their setting... which you may not want.

What children would be cared for at your home? If only your own children, then I feel they are your nanny. If children from 3 or more families, then would be a childminder.

xoxcherylxox Wed 28-Oct-09 14:29:46

in scotland you wouldnt need to register with the second home as i dont think you can register 2 addresses here either but you would be allow to take the children to there own homes an watch them as long as the main care was at the childminders home.

munteria Wed 28-Oct-09 14:40:43

hi, it would be just my children she would look after at my home. we are in england - not sure it makes any difference.

should i contact ofsted to find out for sure?

islandofsodor Wed 28-Oct-09 15:00:30

It isn't OFSTED who make the rules in terms of self employed or employed. It is the Inland Revenue.

TheIronLady Wed 28-Oct-09 15:54:29

It is Ofsted who makes the decision as to which address you are registered to.

I used to work with a co-childminder in my home who was registered to my address and to her own address (incidentally Ofsted did kick up quite a fuss about registering her in two places, I don't think they really like to do this!); she registered in two places because on a couple of days I did not have enough work for her to take on in her own right.

She certainly would need to be registered at your address also to work in your home as a registered childminder, I would imagine Oftsed would need to inspect your home too for suitability etc as they did my friend.

Either FIS misunderstood you or they have provided you with incorrect information.

Do check with Ofsted.

munteria Wed 28-Oct-09 17:05:30

thanks, will do

nannynick Wed 28-Oct-09 21:14:53

munteria - do you really want your home to have to meet Ofsted standards (do you have no smoking signs in your home? What about paper towels for hand drying in the smallest room? Have your kitchen registered for food prep by environmental health? I'm sure some childminders can tell you of other things Ofsted will insist that you have.) Do you really want someone else having one of their business addresses as being your home?

It seems daft to me to have this person come to your home to care for just your children, yet for you to not be in control.

What is the aim of doing this? Is it to avoid having to operate PAYE? If so it's madness... as HMRC could decide that the childminder whilst being self-employed when childminding, when they work at your home, just caring for your children... then that may (and I consider it WILL) be viewed as being an Employer Employee relationship - thus you would need to operate PAYE (and you may get a fine for not operating PAYE from the start of that person working for you).

From what you have told us so far... this person is coming to your home to work as a nanny. The fact they are already registered as a childminder when working from THEIR home, makes no difference as far as I feel. They are still working as a nanny if they work at your home caring for just your children.

I would strongly suggest that you employ this person as a nanny. If you need them to be a registered childcare provider for the Childcare Voucher scheme... then they will need to register on the appropriate part of the Childcare Register.

Danthe4th Wed 28-Oct-09 23:28:47

Could it be classed as babysitting, i'm a cm and when I babysit I use the ncma babysitting forms so my insurance covers me, but i'm not sure if that can be used during the day may be worth checking.

atworknotworking Thu 29-Oct-09 10:06:09

Hi havn't read all posts but have just come accross this ? on the Ofsted site if you type in a search for "home childminders" it will tell you what you need to know, it is possible to be a childminder working somewhere other than their own home, but as ever has criteria attached.

Would have thought it would be much easier for this lady to reg as a nanny, could still be a CM if she wanted to keep reg going for flexibility.

summerstorm Thu 29-Oct-09 22:42:46

main reason parents use cm's instead of nannies is that parents can clain back a percentage of the cm fees or nursery fees which they cannot do with nannies wages.

nannynick Fri 30-Oct-09 07:41:35

How can parents claim back a percentage of childminder fees?
Surely you are meaning tax credits or childcare vouchers, both of which are valid for any form of registered childcare which in England and Scotland (in Scotland nanny agencies are registered rather than the nanny) includes nannies.

summerstorm Sat 31-Oct-09 01:42:47

I think it is a form of tax credits but as I understand it parents can claim a percenage of their fees paid to cm or nurseries but babysitting or nanny costs do not qualify as you need to supply a registration number for the cm or nursery along with contract for such and the amout you get back is depending on you earnings or income. Will try and find out exactly what it is called

nannynick Sat 31-Oct-09 09:49:29

Sounds like Childcare Element of Working Tax Credit to me... WTC2 (PDF) and WTC5 (PDF) explain Childcare Element of WTC.
Nannies in England can register with Ofsted (nannies are referred to as Home Childcarers - Ofsted: Guide to Registration on the Childcare Register and thus can supply a registration number. Nannies in Scotland if recruited via a registered agency are also eligible to my knowledge. Not sure on situation in Wales or NI.

summerstorm Sun 01-Nov-09 19:09:36

I am in Scotland we always seem to be a bit different up here

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