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New Nanny with own child, please advise

(21 Posts)
EvaLongoria Mon 28-Sep-09 22:23:54

Hi All

I am very new at this but kind of last minute needed care for my DD of 2 years. Because of my hours I am struggling to find a childminder who is willing to stretch an hour later than normal 6pm finish.

I am seeing a Nanny tomorrow and she has a little boy of her own age slightly younger than my DD.

I want to know now, the salary do I still pay her the same I would for a normal nanny with no kid of their own. And what is the best way of pay Gross or Net?

Also because of someone else's child in my house what else do I have to do?

Many thanks

frakkinpannikin Mon 28-Sep-09 22:28:26

Nanny with own child is sometimes £1 or £2 cheaper/hour than one without. Always pay gross, never net, because you might get caught out by tax changes or she might be on a funny tax code.

Think about whether you need extra equipment for her child and who will provide that, whether the children's routines will work together, whether your children will get on, whether she has her own things that she likes to do with her DS and if you're happy for your DD to do the same, who pays for outings (do you pay for your DD or for both children), what happens if you want your DD to do an activity her DS doesn't or vice versa, who pays for food for nanny's DS, what happens if her DS is sick or your DD is sick - ff you search nanny with own child on here there are lots of threads about it!

Good luck

frakkinpannikin Mon 28-Sep-09 22:30:36

Also, don't feel like you have to rush into a permanent arrangement because you've found it difficult to get care. A nanny search is something that it's worth taking time over and getting right and if you're not happy with the nanny bringing her child to work then don't go with it. You can always get a temporary nanny to tide you over until you find a permanent one you like to relieve the pressure of having to find someone immediately.

nannynick Mon 28-Sep-09 22:56:24

You are a Mumsnetter... you will agree to a Gross salary in the contract grinsmile

If the nanny wants to know what they will be getting roughly as take home pay, then direct them to www.listentotaxman.com which will do the calculations for them. Tax changes during the year, it can go up and down.

A professional nanny should not object to being paid gross, in my view. Vast majority of other jobs are paid gross, so why not nannies.

>I am seeing a Nanny tomorrow and she has a little boy of her own age

Hmm... it's late isn't it smile Science hasn't come that far yet.

I take it that you meant that her son is close in age to your daughter.

Lowering the salary due to the nanny bringing their own child is something that gets discussed on here from time to time. There are usually two camps, those who feel there should be a drop in salary, and those who don't.

Personally, I feel there should be a drop as your DD won't be getting 100% attention.

The nanny with luck will have thought about practicalities - such as double buggy, highchair, sleeping arrangements. Also what will happen regarding food - much easier to cook the same food for both of them (that then means you are providing food for her child, thus another reason for the salary to drop).

As the nanny is live-out, the lowest the salary can go is National Minimum Wage. However, I would doubt you would be paying that low... but you may end up paying a couple of pounds an hour above it.

You need to find the right match in terms of the nanny... can you get along with them, does your DD respond to them appropriately, does the nanny have the same views with regard to raising children as you do. That sort of thing. Look for the nanny first - then look at anything that comes with the nanny. As frakkinpannikin says, try not to be rushed into making a decision.

EvaLongoria Mon 28-Sep-09 22:59:16

Thanks FP

I read somewhere that Gross is better just when I enquired with 2 local agencies they were quite insistent on offering Net pay. But read up on it and looks like Gross all the way.

Havent looked at equipments and all that.
I am a childminder but am resigning and just bought a new double buggy and hoping to sell it for £250 as hardly used. But thought if I have a nanny with own child I can obviously offer the buggy. (would love to sell it though)

I am going to ask her all the questions tomorrow and see what she says.
Regarding Insurance any helpful info on that please.

thanks

EvaLongoria Mon 28-Sep-09 23:04:55

Thanks Nannynick

<I am seeing a Nanny tomorrow and she has a little boy of her own age

Hmm... it's late isn't it smile Science hasn't come that far yet.

I take it that you meant that her son is close in age to your daughter.>

Yes thats what i meant. Got home after 9pm from college so my brain is a bit fried. grin

I realised that if she brings her own child then my daughter wont have 100% her attention. Also the little bits that nannies normally do like occasionally ironing my daugher's clothes and things like that wont be touched as well I reckon if you have your own child.

Oooh what did I do, I really need to get this sorted. Maybe we need to see and do a trial run.

Millarkie Mon 28-Sep-09 23:08:23

Having employed a nanny with own child (albeit some time ago now) my advice would be to ask her what she feels the difference is between a nanny without a child and nanny with..if she doesn't come up with any negatives I wouldn't employ her - just because they haven't thought everything through properly.
I paid about 80% going rate (gross, naturally )
Depending on what hours you require her, ask her how she will fit her child's routine into the working day (ie. if she has to leave for work at 7am is she happy waking child and bringing him then, what about him falling asleep in car on way home at 6.30 or 7pm). This was something my ex-nanny found hard (didn't want to disrupt her child's routine) and it ended up with a bit of a mess - she would leave her ds in cot with her dp, come to my place and get my ds to school then drive my dd back to her house to pick up her ds, then drive back to mine etc...lots of time for dd in the car (and I was paying for petrol).
Will she be happy bringing ds to work if he is likely to catch a virus from your dd (there's a recent thread on this from a nanny with own child, not wanting to expose her child to a nasty virus whilst a nanny without a child would still go to work).
On the bright side, my dc loved having another littlie in the house.

nannynick Mon 28-Sep-09 23:19:46

Why wouldn't washing get touched (I don't iron clothes - well I did one item a few weeks back). A nanny could be caring for 4 children and still have to do the children's laundry.

What do you mean by insurance? Insurance for what? Employers liability insurance for a domestic worker in your home is typically part of your home insurance policy - dig out the policy booklet.
If the nanny works in England and is on the Ofsted Childcare Register, then they will have their own Public Liability Insurance - like you had as a childminder. If the nanny isn't registered... then they probably won't have insurance - but that is up to them, not you.

Nanny agencies who only deal in Net wages in my view should be shut down. They are a disgrace. Good agencies will display salaries in adverts as Gross and will talk parents though the procedures involved in operating PAYE, including how it can be done without the help of a payroll company... plus many will also suggest a payroll company who can do it for you, if you wanted. There are various companies, so shop around as prices do vary quite a bit.

Boys and girls are different as I expect you already know... so her son and your DD may be wanting to do different things during the day.

Sickness of the nannies child, can be an issue as Millarkie says. If her child is ill, will she still bring him? Will she come at all? If your dd has a minor illness, will she still bring her son? One benefit of a nanny is that they will tend to care for a child who is a little bit ill, whereas group childcare settings have to consider other children's welfare and thus send children home at the onset of a virus.

juneybean Mon 28-Sep-09 23:35:43

shock Nick that a unregistered nanny wouldn't have insurance, you should well know that those of us that are professionals do have insurance :P

Blondeshavemorefun Tue 29-Sep-09 18:28:24

double shockshock at nicks comment wink

I am not ofsted registered as my mb/db cant use the vouchers, also wasnt in previous jobs for same reasons and I have had nanny insurance for 10+years

I feel that ALL nannys who know/have heard about nanny insurance should have it if they want to call theirselves professional nannys

eva - i feel that the nanny should take a lower wage, maybe £1/2 less a hour

i know what you mean about nett/gross - as i said on another thread, lots of agencies still talk in nett so some parents want to

nannynick Tue 29-Sep-09 21:04:33

Surely you two are not saying that ALL nannies have insurance.

Professional Nannies will have insurance, but we know that there are many nannies who are not as professional as we are.

EvaLongoria Tue 29-Sep-09 21:13:01

Thank you guys, appreciate all the replies.

I met up with the nanny today and she seemed very nice and keen. Not 100% sure as yet because I love doing my research on everything and this came at the last minute and therefore dont want to just jump at it because I am desperate for childcare. After all she is my daughter and I never left her with someone before until recently.

I spoke to the nanny re: wage. She then also asked me if I wanted her to be self-employed. Meaning I pay her money and dont need to register myself as an employee and she then pays her own taxes. I read up about Net and Gross Wages but not about Self-employed nannies.

As a childminder I was self-employed. i am off to google to do some more research on that but would like everyone to tell me the pro's and cons about self-employed nannies and if its better than offering Gross wages.

Thanks

PS:
Oh and she didnt have insurance as yet because she didnt nanny yet since her son was born but will be getting insurance.

She also said she will bring her sons own food, etc

nannynick Tue 29-Sep-09 21:19:29

"She then also asked me if I wanted her to be self-employed"

That's an odd thing to ask. Quite rare for a nanny to be self employed, as the nature of the work is usually an Employer Employee relationship. If they are providing ad-hoc care then maybe... but if it is fixed hours, fixed days, then chances are that it won't meet criteria for self employment.

I would suggest you avoid going down the route. If the tax office write to you to tell you that you don't need to operate PAYE then that's up to the tax office... until then treat her as an employee, pay her as an employee.

annh Tue 29-Sep-09 21:23:40

Unless the nanny is doing very temporary, or ad-hoc childcare for you where she almost gets to choose her own hours or decide whether she is or isn't available on certain days and times, then she cannot be self-employed. Also, it isn't up to her to decide on her employment status if she is working solely/mainly for you and it will be you, not her, who gets clobbered for back taxes and a hefty fine if IR catch you. Ignorance is no defence and neither is saying that the nanny offered/agreed to be self-employed.

Blondeshavemorefun Tue 29-Sep-09 21:32:15

no, im saying all professional nannys should have insurance regardless if ofsted - though obv many dont

no to nanny being self employed - if set days/hours, then you are employing her

EvaLongoria Tue 29-Sep-09 21:38:01

Thank you for the replies.
Because I never really came across it before regarding self-employed I told her I would get back to her regarding that. And was surprised at that myself.
Her hours will definitely be fixed and even increase as I am starting college for 2 days a week set days and times and then part of my course is I must find a job or placement to pass my course.

Also what do I do if i only really need term time care. Most likely I may need her if I find a job where I will have to work during holidays but just incase. Would I do similar to what childminders do and pay either a retainer or can I employ her on a term-time basis only?

you guys are great and thanks for all the responses so far not even google can match up to mumsnet's knowledge. grin

stealthsquiggle Tue 29-Sep-09 21:43:30

One thing to add FWIW - from a friend's experience - to the 'what if her child is ill' question - if friend's nanny's child is mildly ill she leaves him with her mother. If one of her charges is mildly ill (but well enough for their parents to be happy going to work and leaving them, clearly) then I think she brings him anyway.

annh Tue 29-Sep-09 21:47:02

Not sure on the term-time care. I think it is unlikely that you will find someone who will agree to not being paid for long college holidays, Like most of us, she is probably working to live and couldn't afford not to get paid for a couple of months a year. Similarly, even paying a retainer may not give her enough money. However, you can but ask. She may like the idea of having the summer with her own child, she may have a partner who is a teacher and want to have time off with him, etc. Be prepared for her to say no though!

nannynick Tue 29-Sep-09 21:49:01

You can do a term time only contract... I've had one of those in the past. It can be get a bit messy with regard to holiday entitlement as you may want to stipulate that holiday can only be taken outside of term time. Employers saying when holiday can be taken is legal, but you need to make it very clear to the nanny prior to signing contracts. What you would do is work out the number of weeks of childcare needed to cover term time, then add on another 5.6 weeks (minus any bank holidays that fall during the term time weeks). It may be easier to round up... so working weeks are the term time weeks plus 6 additional weeks. That may help compensate a bit for you insisting when they take holiday. However it will result in some weeks in the year where there is no pay at all... and some nannies will not like that. Some nannies may want to be paid a retainer on the weeks when childcare (or holiday being taken) isn't being needed.
Given it can all get a bit messy and that you don't know for sure at this point that you won't need them during holiday periods - you may want to decide to pay all weeks of the year regardless. Makes it easier for you to calculate the costs and means that even if you are not working, you can ask the nanny to come in so you can get on with some things for yourself - getting your hair cut for example.

nannynick Tue 29-Sep-09 21:51:06

"It can be get a bit" - I do apologise, it's getting a bit late. Was supposed to be: It can get a bit

frakkinpannikin Wed 30-Sep-09 20:07:46

You can do what teachers have which is annual pay worked out based on the hours worked and divided by 12 to give a monthly sum and specify that holiday is only taken outside of school terms.

Alternatively have a look around for someone wanting holiday only care and put her in touch with them as a possibility for a second job.

Another no for the self-employment option though.

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