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WWYD - CM and too many kids

(21 Posts)
Greatfun Wed 16-Sep-09 21:35:37

My DCs have just started with a CM x3 weekly. I booked her many months ago after lots of research. Now I feel I have made a terrible mistake. On a positive both DCs have settled well (even DS who is not quite 2). However, she is going over her numbers. She is meant to have 3 under 5s and has 4. She didnt volunteer this information it was just when I noticed today. I queried it and she said it will be OK as her daughter is soon to be ofsted registered. I have never met the daughter and didnt agree to this in the first instance. I am back at work next week so arranging childcare st such short notice is not going to be easy. I feel somewhat ambushed by this. WWYD?

xoxcherylxox Wed 16-Sep-09 21:47:46

i am a childminder and it may be that her daughter is going to be her assistant and they are just waiting on the offical paper work coming through and rather than turn you away and say she doesnt have space for the sake of a few weeks shes told you there is space for you child as she knows so the offical paper work will be through. i have an assistant and we have just uped the numbers from 6 which is normal to 8, we can have 6 under 5 and the other 2 school age but when my assistant is on annual leave i can have 4 we ones and 2 afterschoolers rather than the normal 3 wee ones and 3 afterschools.
it may also be that it is only certain times in the day that there is 4 we ones ie at drop of time in morning time all kids at school and morning nursery then back to normal numbers while kid at nursery then when picking up the hour or so between morn nurs finishing and afternoon starting. or mayb some children are only half days. it may also be one of the children she watches is family so technically the daughter could be looking after that child and the childminder the other 3 just until the offical paper wrk comes through. i would just ask her how long it will take for her daughter to be registered and then what her daughters role will be.

danthe4th Wed 16-Sep-09 22:41:34

Its illegal and she is not insured, I would report to ofsted.

xoxcherylxox Wed 16-Sep-09 22:58:41

as long as you are working to the regualtions on your registration certificate then you are cover by the insurance so if she is in charge and caring for 3 children and thats whats on ther certificate she is covered. if it says 4 on her certificate thn she is covered by insurance as it is on certificate.

atworknotworking Thu 17-Sep-09 06:46:04

Cm's can only have whats on the certificate, regardless of what might be on the way, until she has a new certificate to reflect the new assistants numbers she cannot have any extra children. Howwver it may be that one of the children you saw could have been one of her own childrens friends coming for tea, or a new child visiting so I would double check.

Many cm's work with assistants now and in a lot of settings this works well it would have been nice for her to explain that this might be the case and for you too meet perhaps you could arrange a time to visit when her daughter will be their.

HSMM Thu 17-Sep-09 08:02:21

She should have applied for a written variation from Ofsted to have 4 under 5 until her assistant is registered. (and she should have told you she was taking on an assistant)

Greatfun Thu 17-Sep-09 14:39:54

The daughter hasn't even done the course yet so id no where near registered. She wasn't there on the day in question either but TBH there were only a few hours where all children were present due to nursery times. She is great in all other respects. Out of my 3 days its only 1 day a week where its an issue.

misskes Fri 18-Sep-09 19:05:53

hi there, you dont say how old the 4 children are that she has? is one of them four years old, but attends school all day?

if not then she is not allowed 4 children under 5. it is illegal and none of the children will be insured if anything should happen.
ask her if she has a variation? does'nt matter what her daughter is waiting for.

Greatfun Sun 20-Sep-09 22:21:14

All 4 children are under 4. We have since spoken where she said it was only once a week for a few hours to help accomodate everyone. She then came over at the weekend basically to give us our notice on the grounds that she thought I would question her everytime she 'bent the rules' hmm. I assume that means the other parents don't question or don't know. Anyway we came to an agreement over the issue and will see how things go. I really dont have much choice given that time is running out as I am back at work soon.

Greatfun Sun 20-Sep-09 22:23:08

Her certificate says 4 (or it could be 5) children under 8. There is no mention of under 5's.

Numberfour Mon 21-Sep-09 06:56:53

do you have her registration number, greatfun? because then you could check her registration conditions on the OFSTED website.

She is operating illegally, as has been said above, if she is not registered to care for 4 under 5's and of course that means that her insurance would be invalid.

BrieVanDerKamp Mon 21-Sep-09 07:39:54

The certificates don't say under 5's anymore, how many in the early years group does it say she can have??

Greatfun Mon 21-Sep-09 08:32:26

I looked on her ofsted report online and it just says 5 under 8, not more than one can be under 1. Nothing about under 5s.

nannynick Mon 21-Sep-09 08:45:19

Look at her certificate details online, not the Ofsted report. You may have already done that... just described it wrong.
To see the certificate detail, click Inspection Reports and enter the childminders URN, click GO. The scroll down to Conditions Of Registration.

The conditions are now phrased as:
may care for no more than X children under 8 years; of these, not more than Y may be in the early years age group, and of these, not more than Z may be under 1 year at any one time (Early Years Register, compulsory part of the Childcare Register)

The Early Years Age Group is the children not attending full-time school.

Could you copy and paste that section - then we can tell you what it means.

Greatfun Mon 21-Sep-09 09:03:19

Thanks for your help nanny nick. This is what it says:

The registered person:

•must not provide overnight care
•may care for no more than 5 children under 8 years; of these, not more than 1 may be under 1 year at any one time

Verbally she said she can have 3 under 5. Am confused.

nannynick Mon 21-Sep-09 09:30:39

From what you posted, it's saying 5 children under 8 years... with the condition being that no more than one of those can be under age 1. So she can care for 4 children under 5.

Can you e-mail me her URN? (see my mumsnet profile, for my contact info)

Numberfour Mon 21-Sep-09 21:14:28

Greatfun, any news for us?

Missuseff Mon 21-Sep-09 22:16:30

JMHO, but there's "bending the rules" and breaking the law. If she's bending the rules, that means she is doing something as a one-off that poses no risk or danger. If she's breaking the law then your children are potentially at risk.

I am sorry to sound negative but you have to trust your gut instinct and maybe start hunting NOW for a better, more upfront situation. I know that's easier said than done (went thru hell with our first CM) but you do have to do what feels right you you for your children...

Good luck!

xoxcherylxox Tue 22-Sep-09 08:01:16

if her certificate just says 5 children under 8 and only 1 under 1 then she isnt doing anything wrong and is wrking within her numbers

Greatfun Tue 22-Sep-09 08:41:15

Its OK I think I have found someone else. Thats good because I was soon to call work about extending my leave. I rea;ised 2 of her and before and after schoolies are under 8 so she would be over on a regular basis.

xoxcherylxox Tue 22-Sep-09 19:13:01

oh well thats gd you found somewhere else but could it not be that the afterschoolers go to school then once she gets home a toddler/baby arrives say half9. then maybe someone gets piked up say at half2 before school kids come in

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