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CRB for parents taking other children to clubs, what about if they come over for a playdate?

(42 Posts)
Ripeberry Fri 11-Sep-09 11:03:10

I understand the thing about people who ferry kids around needing a CRB, that goes without saying.
But do you think they would extend it to parents who arrange playdates?
One good thing about it though.
It may stop illegal CMs as most don't have CRB's hmm

thedollshouse Fri 11-Sep-09 11:09:06

It has been misreported in the media. Parents will not need a CRB to take other children to cubs etc. A parent who volunteers their services as a driver will need a CRB. For example my friend sometimes takes ds to gym classes, she will not need a CRB if however she starts doing this on an official basis, she would need to be police checked.

It is perfectly sensible but as usual the media are trying to blow it up into something it isn't.

squirrel42 Fri 11-Sep-09 11:25:37

I volunteer for a local hospice and they have volunteer drivers who help to transport patients to the day hospice and in-patient unit. It's the equivalent to those sort of volunteers that this scheme is aimed at, not a friend or neighbour who drives someone there "unofficially" and not as part of an organised scheme.

nannynick Fri 11-Sep-09 11:55:03

Domestic is exempt. This means it is fine if it is an agreement between you and the childs parent. So no issue with playdates.
Also means that nannies are exempt, though I expect nannies will register as it will make it much easier for parents to check the nannies CRB Status.

BoffinMum Fri 11-Sep-09 15:49:53

But I think they may have inadvertently just outlawed private music teachers, especially if they take kids to music examinations - I wil check the details.

squirrel42 Fri 11-Sep-09 16:14:01

Sorry to be a bit combative on this, but they haven't "outlawed" anyone. They're requiring certain groups of people have safeguarding checks carried out - how is that making music teachers illegal?

It's the knee-jerk hysteria of people claiming that a neighbour will need to be vetted before they can give a child a lift to to a birthday party, or have friends checked before letting a child go to a sleepover that leads to a lack of faith in the important work that these systems do. I'm not saying it's perfect, but there are still an awful lot of people out there who could very easily work or volunteer with vulnerable groups who don't have a criminal record, but where there is "soft information" held by people like social services which raise concerns about their suitability. This is information that protential employers, groups or charities etc need to know before letting these individuals work possibly unsupervised with young children.

thebody Fri 11-Sep-09 18:25:44

I think anything that makes kids safer is a good thing really. I was abused by the school bus driver in the 70s. Such was the climate then that when I told my mother about his innapropriate 'tickling' she told me not to be silly!!!

things are much better now but we always need to be vigilant, there are plenty of paedophiles out there and they always want to be near children.

Will those of us who already have been crb checked have to have them done again to be on this new register, or will we automatically be added hmm

I had one done last month for job which I start next week, yet the school my son attends will not accept it and I have to have another one done through them before I can help out in class - someone is going to make a lot of money out of this.

Some childrens minister was on tv at lunchtime and said on air that it's only people who transport children on behalf of organisations, not those doing it for friends, who need to be checked. Also, anyone who helps with cubs, footie clubs on a regular basis - but I would have thought they would have to have one anyway.

nannynick Fri 11-Sep-09 19:04:05

underpaid - as far as I am aware, they will redo the CRB check and then keep tabs on any future updates to that check. Thus it may replace the CRB check as we know it.

Current CRB checks are valid on the date of issue and are specific for the job for which they were applied, they aren't valid at any other time... under the new system the check seems to remain valid continuously plus it also makes the check portable between jobs. So I see that as being a good improvement on the current CRB situation.
In addition, to check the status of a person I believe the aim is to have a facility to do that online at no cost... so parents, schools, voluntary organisations, can check a registered individuals ISA status at low cost.

Further information is available from the website - www.isa-gov.org.uk Note: Not a government URL, yet on Radio4 this morning the spokesperson said it was a non-departmental ministry... so did I miss hear them, or were they wrong. If it is Governement then it should be .gov.uk not .org.uk

So if I'm working as a cm and a playgroup leader will I have to have it redone twice hmm

winnie09 Fri 11-Sep-09 19:21:48

This has been badly misrepresented in the press. I think the new system should be much better but obviously it will take some time before everyone with CRB's are on it.

nannynick Fri 11-Sep-09 19:33:06

underpaid - nope, you should only need to do it once. The check is on the individual, not on the job... so you as an individual doing a regulated activity (CM and Playgroup are both regulated activities) then you need to be ISA registered - Ofsted need to then check you are on the register and your employer (in the case of the playgroup) also needs to check the ISA register.

winnie09 - quite agree. The ISA scheme seems much better and will be the first time that employers of nannies (babysitters and anyone else working in a private home) can check on that person being cleared to work with children - although nannies/babysitters don't have to register... they can do so voluntarily and I expect they will register, if parents want to see some evidence of their suitability.

BoffinMum Fri 11-Sep-09 22:01:17

Squirrel, my thinking is that from October, for the first time, it will actually be an offence to have contact with children in a professional capacity of any kind without being registered. It will take time for this to happen, so in the meantime private music teachers will be breaking the law. I have asked my professional association to advise whether this is in fact the case.

nannynick Fri 11-Sep-09 22:30:35

"Registration and checking registered status will become mandatory for phased-in groups from November 2010." Source: ISA-gov.org.uk

So does that mean it is only an offence to be unchecked, come November 2010? After all, there is no way of actually applying now... so no hope that millions of people will be vetted in time for October this year!

BoffinMum Sat 12-Sep-09 09:05:45

Ah, that makes sense. But do you know what? I really have had enough of being vetted now, and I think I am going to dig my heels in and refuse this time. For me it's a bit of an identity card moment. You will probably see me on the six o'clock news being thrown into a Black Maria for Teaching Music To Local Kids For Free In My Spare Time Without Having The Latest Licence. angry

What is really sad is that now lots of children's facilities and organisations around here are being closed, to be replaced with bland offerings from large organisations that are not as good for my children, and cost £££££££.

<considers emigration>

nannynick Sat 12-Sep-09 09:22:52

You've had enough... think about me - a bloke working with children (I've been checked under various schemes for years - even back in around '96 I was being checked by Social Services). Even with being vetted some people still won't employ me - and I suspect it is due to my gender (just can't prove it).

It is an identity card moment... Those working with chidlren I feel are one of the top categories to be told they need to have identity cards. This latest scheme is creating a database to be linked to the eventual ID card that childcare workers (and other's who work with children) will eventually carry.

BoffinMum Sat 12-Sep-09 23:05:11

Well I am not prepared to have an identity card either. I can always make curtains for a living or become a professional gambler or some other thing more useful to society!!!!

I would hire you Nick.

frakkinpannikin Sat 12-Sep-09 23:21:55

I want an ID card! It would make life so much easier when I'm living on the continent and not in the UK.

TBH I'll be checked and have done with it.

vInTaGeVioLeT Sun 13-Sep-09 00:27:44

crb checks are a good thing - anyone working with children as a volunteer or paid should be checked - i don't understand why people get so outraged about it hmm
i have one crb check for my childminding , one for my breast feeding peer support work, one for being on the pre-school commitee and am just applying for another to allow me to help out in my son's school - think how much that is costing someone shock not me i hasten to add.

DaisymooSteiner Sun 13-Sep-09 00:30:44

It is costing you VV in your taxes!!

vInTaGeVioLeT Sun 13-Sep-09 00:36:06

well i barely pay tax but i see what you mean and childrens safety is worth more than money isn't it?

BoffinMum Sun 13-Sep-09 20:21:38

<slight rant alert>

Well, personally speaking, I get outraged about these checks because they are expensive, inefficient, often inaccurate and lead people to trust bits of paper instead of their judgement. Because abuse often takes place for years or decades before a conviction takes place, I do not believe they make children any safer - that's just lazy thinking based on government spin (sorry for any offence VintageViolet, nothing personal). Removing children from mainstream society like this runs the grave risk of damaging them through them losing the ability to trust fellow human beings, build relationships with strangers, share in community life and generally be part of a larger whole. We are ghettoising them as a result of a collective nervous breakdown about the role of children in society, and there may be very serious consequences to all of us, children included, that go well beyond the damage caused by paedophilia, violence, etc.

Plus on a personal level I take exception to the government bossing me about all the time like I am somehow potentially flawed and dangerous. I know a lot more about children than most of them, yet my voice remains unheard in all this.

That having been said, I have no objection to routine police checks in general relating to my work, it's the frequent, pedantic, intrusive and repetitive nature of CRB/VBS checks and so on I object to, especially now I am having to pay for them myself for work, and they don't seem to be tax-deductible.

For the record I don't have any truck with the age-old argument that 'if you are innocent you have nothing to fear' for two main reasons. Firstly IMO you have everything to fear because in this McCarthyesque climate you may be wrongly accused of something and have your life ruined, with little recourse. Secondly that is the exact same argument that Victorians used to justify the law allowing random women to be stopped in the street and stopped for compulsory gynaecological checks for STDs at the whim of police officers. I never thought I would see our society back there in my lifetime.

I wish they had put more resources into developing List 99 properly rather than introducing an entirely new system like something out of 1984.

<wonders if any MNetters fancy joining her in a Cath Kidston teepee in some commune somewhere away from government control wink>
<draws breath>

thekidscoach Sun 13-Sep-09 20:31:47

I already have a CRB check and I thought I needed something else in addition. Is this not true or do I need to fork out money for another document?

BoffinMum Sun 13-Sep-09 20:44:28

If you have anything to do with kids professionally, you will have to fork out 60-something squids for a new type of check, or it will be illegal to have contact with them.

Currently the emphasis is different - organisations do not have to insist on you having a CRB check if they don't want to.
It is not illegal to work with kids without a CRB check, as music teachers do, for example. But from next year it appears it will be illegal to give a piano lesson to a child / go into schools to talk in assembly about fly fishing/ run a stall at a school fete without having this permit/licence/whatever you want to call it.

vInTaGeVioLeT Mon 14-Sep-09 00:23:15

boffinmum - no offence taken - CRB checks may or may not make children safer but they do make the parents feel more relaxed about leaving their children with relative strangers,so in a way this does give they children more chance to intergrate.
if a parent feels uncomfortable with someone - CRB checked or not - surely they will not leave their kids with them.

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