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Has anyone managed to find a live out au pair?

(18 Posts)
Mummywhereisyourwillie Sun 23-Aug-09 19:07:21

We really don't have the room/inclination for a live in one.

Could anyone estimate how much this would cost on a full time, live out basis in the South West (edge of city).

Thanks

Supernanny19 Sun 23-Aug-09 19:13:14

Why dont you get a nanny?
To leave an aupair full time..? Thats rather..brave!

live out au-pairs dont really exist

you could maybe get a live out mothers help but maybe you need a nanny

maybe to save costs get a nanny looking for first time nanny job.

anything from min wage upwards is fair, but will reflect the experience of the person applying

LadyMuck Sun 23-Aug-09 19:57:52

Have a look on local gumtree to see what is likely. But the main issue you will face is the status of the relatonship: an au pair is an internationally accepted role and has a number of exceptions worked out in terms of employment law. As you are looking for someone to live out they cannot be your au pair, and so they will be your employee with all the consequences. If you need someone over a long term, and ignoring training and experience requirements, you may find it cheaper to build an extension!

Mummywhereisyourwillie Sun 23-Aug-09 20:26:58

Oh gosh, how complicated! I assumed an au pair was an employee too.

Why is it brave Supernanny? There are two reasons we don't want a nanny: 1) a nanny won't want to do housework and I don't want them to be the one having fun with the children while I clean the loo 2) cost

EColi Sun 23-Aug-09 20:42:50

When you say 'full time' do you mean 25 hours a week (which is the amount au pairs do) or 50 hours a week (which is the amount nannies do)?
Live-in 'employees' are exempt from the minimum wage hence the ability to host au pairs for £65-95 a week pocket money (plus food etc)..once they are live-out then they must be paid minimum wage levels which I guess is at least £5 per hour (haven't looked it up recently) so £125 for 25 hours, £250 for 50 hours. And if you pay over £95ish per week then you have to register with the inland revenue as an employer and pay your employee's income tax and Employer's and Employee's NI.

LadyMuck Sun 23-Aug-09 20:43:44

Well it is only brave if you were going to leave them with sole responsibility for children fulltime. If they are just helping out in the house or with the kids with you around most of the time, or if your children are much older so they can be left with an inexperienced 19yo, then it isn't really a nanny position.

catepilarr Sun 23-Aug-09 20:51:30

living in with the family as a part of the family is one of the fundamental things about beeing an aupair. thats the way they learn about a different culture and lifestyle.
what you are looking for is called a live-out mothers help. you might get someone who worked with a family as an aupair before but want to loive out now. or a newly qualified nanny as people suggested.

Mummywhereisyourwillie Sun 23-Aug-09 21:50:01

Thanks all. It's to do some housework in the day time (bathrooms once a week, daily hoovering etc etc), have newborn for an hour while I nap if I have had a horrific night, cook supper and clean up for our existing 3 children while I feed new baby, bath the children after supper and listen to reading.

They might be left on their own for 25 mins while I pick up from an after school club, but not much more than that.

Mummywhereisyourwillie Sun 23-Aug-09 21:52:24

That didn't read very well ... what I meant is that I would be the one feeding baby, bathing children and listening to reading.

frakkinpannikinAGRIPPA Sun 23-Aug-09 22:53:03

You want a mother's help - a newly qualified nanny who would love experience of a newborn plus 3 other children and won't mind doing housework. As long as you make clear that housework is part of the job description then you're probably okay with that. For that you could offer around £6gross an hour, which is just over minimum wage, and a really good first position for a CV, especially if you're willing to consider leaving them in sole charge for longer periods once you get to know them/trust them some more.

Alternatively you want a cleaner and a part-time nanny.

LM live in au pairs don't really have any exceptions left in employment law. Whilst they might have an 'internationally accepted' idea of what they do in practice the European Court considers them as employees now so under British law they're counted as employees for everything including holiday entitlement and contracts and are only exempt from minimum wage because they're live in.

Mummywhereisyourwillie Sun 23-Aug-09 23:08:59

Thanks Frakkinpannikin. Could probably cope with £6 gross and I guess it would be good experience for them.

frakkinpannikinAGRIPPA Sun 23-Aug-09 23:20:41

It will be fab experience - I owe my career to a woman like you (although not with 4 children) and being willing to do a bit of housework!

LadyMuck Sun 23-Aug-09 23:28:34

My understanding is that they are counted as "workers" rather than employees, and as such are covered by certain EU directives eg working time directive. But the key differences will still be in terms of tax and NI as typically their pocket money is less than the NI limits, so they cannot get SSP for example (though if they are here under Type 5 visa then they can't get any benefit), nor is employer's NI payable, and in general most au pair hosts do not have to deduct tax etc.

When I hear the term "live out au pair" it usually refers to someone (often from overseas) taking cash in hand as a mother's help.

The cost of each vary enormously.

AholaLoadOfTrouble Sun 23-Aug-09 23:34:58

frakkinpannikinAGRIPPA - where would you find one? Would you advertise for a mothers help or for a newly qualified nanny, or would you advert include both phrases?

catepilarr Sun 23-Aug-09 23:39:45

gumtree.com, nannyjob.co.uk
and in your ad you can put something like mothers help position, may suit a newly qualified nanny or similar

frakkinpannikinAGRIPPA Mon 24-Aug-09 00:07:10

But if they take a second job then both salaries need to be declared and they are counted as employed. Subtle yet important difference if au pair is working at the local pub at the weekends because both salaries count towards tax, but NI probably still isn't payable! But then the employer would have to register with HMRC etc.

And yes, nannyjob and gumtree are both good places to advertise. Or you can sift through people with adverts up on there and see whether anyone catches your eye. If this is the first time you're hiring you might want to use an agency for peace of mind, although it will cost money (usually a percentage of the annual salary) and you'll want to verify documents and check references yourself. There's also netmums local childcare boards.

Personally I would pay for membership of nannyjob and look through CVs on there and gumtree.

frakkinpannikinAGRIPPA Mon 24-Aug-09 00:10:58

That's a really bad explanation re: the second job scenario. What I mean is both salaries count, au pair might use her personal allowance on your job so you don't have to add tax on and you might not have to pay NI but she will be taxed at basic rate and probably pay NI on her second job but you need to register with HMRC so they know where her personal allowance is going and how much she's earning. Or he.

Still clear as mud?

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