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Hmmm, cm reckons no contract needed for care less than 2hrs a day.....

(24 Posts)

Now, I've never heard of this in 4 yrs as a cm but the cm I'm putting ds with from Sept reckons that if she cares for him for less than 2hrs per day we don't need a formal contract hmm. He's going into reception, so isn't one of her under-5's.

Feel a bit uncomfortable about this as I've always had contracts for children no matter how many hours a week I've cared for them but she was adamant that she was right.

Have known her for years - she cared for older children - but if I remember rightly I didn't get annual contracts for them either, though I didn't know any better then. She's only doing school drop off, but I'm concerned that if we don't have a contract then her insurance won't cover any accidents etc. She's with MM btw for insurance.

I've always been NCMA and know that their insurance is only valid if I use their paperwork. She knows I'm a cm at the moment also, but I'm not sure......... She's asked me just to write down contact numbers, dob etc......again, I have comprehensive records for each child. Am I just being too much in CM mode hmm

Anyone out there enlighten me please......

If there's one thing worse than a parent looking for a cm, it's a cm looking for a cm grin.............

aGalChangedHerName Fri 31-Jul-09 19:12:12

I did a contract for my before schoolie that i had for 45 mins. Better to cover myself IMO. I would insist on a contract. Is she trying to do it cash in hand do you think so she doesn't have to declare the money?

Blondeshavemorefun Fri 31-Jul-09 19:18:48

without a contract you wont have a leg to stand on if something goes wrong/disagreements about money,notice etc

so even if using a cm for one hour a week, you still need one, let alone 2hrs every day

and yes i would have thought if a cm didnt have a contract/proper paperwork then she wouldnt be covered

but what would i know grin - im just a nanny who doesnt have the hassle of paperwork (thank god!!)

Well, we're paying her with childcare vouchers, so there will be remittance advice to her and us every month. Not sure..........

She's very laid back to the point of almost being horizontal. smile. DP thinks we should look around, but have to say can't face doing it cos I know the ins and outs..grin. Would end up quizzing them on EYFS.

MollieO Fri 31-Jul-09 19:20:58

I'm not a CM but as a parent I wouldn't use a CM that didn't give me a contract no matter what the hours are. If she can't be bothered to do contracts I would be concerned at what else she can't be bothered to do too. What would happen if she had an Ofsted inspection when your ds was there? Would she hide him in a cupboard? hmm

Blondes- you have the right idea.....should have become a nanny instead grin.

Feel totally stupid, cos I know EYFS inside out after Ofsted inspection earlier this year, but she is so insistent............

Can't ring my cm coordinator either - because she's hers too. Just something doesn't seem right.....

MollieO Fri 31-Jul-09 19:24:45

Can't you ring your coordinator and say you've had an enquiry from a parent and ask her? Although why would you want to force a contract and your ds on someone who sounds as if she can't be bothered?

BONKERZ Fri 31-Jul-09 19:27:39

do you think maybe she is getting confused......ofsted say you dont need to be registered if you care for children for less than 2 hours a day! maybe she is confused and has mistaken that rule to mean no contract!

atworknotworking Fri 31-Jul-09 19:29:49

Got this of ofsted site, is she definately registered as a cm, does she just look after older mindees?

1.You do not need to register as a childminder if you:
are the parent, grandparent or other close relative of the child you are looking after1
have parental responsibility for the child
are a local authority foster parent to the child
are a foster parent with whom the child has been placed by a voluntary organisation
foster the child privately
only look after the child between the hours of 6pm and 2am
look after the child wholly or mainly in the child’s own home
look after children for two sets of parents wholly or mainly in the home of either or both sets of parents

*care for an individual child for two hours or less per day*

provide education under a home education arrangement for a child who is of compulsory school age and the care you give is incidental to the education you provide. A home education arrangement is where a child of compulsory school age does not receive
full-time education in a school, and is partly or wholly educated by someone who is not the child’s parent
provide no more than two types of activity from the following list:
- school study support or homework support
- sport
- performing arts
- arts and crafts
- religious, cultural or language study.

This exemption only applies if you care for children who are aged three and over, and children aged under five do not attend for more than four hours in any one day. Any care provided is incidental to the activity: it is not the main focus of your provision.

Mollie, will do that - good job someone's on the ball grin. She's a really good cm - if laidback - and used her for 5yrs in the past. Just don't know if she's not as watertight as I am on paperwork.

Atwork - she's currently full with her under 5's. Definitely registered - have read her last Ofsted.

Blondeshavemorefun Fri 31-Jul-09 19:37:38

what happens to all the paperwork that cms do

does it get given to the childs parents?

as in if you werent bothered about her not doing reports etc - would it matter as your child is nearly 5

atworknotworking Fri 31-Jul-09 19:41:14

underpaid - think I've sussed it, if she's full, by not doing contract she will be caring for you child outside of registration therefore allowing her to take mindee when full IYSWIM

that sounds as clear as mud, what i should say is if she is full she could only take on your dc on the basis of unregistered care

She's still supposed to do obs and assessments until 31st August after his 5th birthday, and liaise with reception teacher, sharing the info. I know that cos that's what cost me my outstanding grade earlier this year - I cared for a child 5yrs 4mths, 4hrs a wk, and was told didn't need to do it, till inspector decided hmmm yes, you should be and downgraded me sad.

Personally, couldn't care less about daily diaries - but it's this contract thingy that's bothering me.

nannynick Fri 31-Jul-09 19:42:34

I think the insurance may not be valid. Policy Summary doesn't state specifically about a contract being needed, so I'd suggest you call (or e-mail) MM as if you were a childminder and make enquiries with regard to the circumstances in which you would need a written contract (rather than verbal).

But he won't be an under 5 when he's in FTE. Surely, knowing I'm a cm she wouldn't even attempt to do it 'unregistered' - or is that me being naive hmm. TBH, naivity is prob the reason am going back to work - far, far too soft as a cm.............blush

Bloody hell, Friday night, still not over poxy swine flu and worrying about September..... off to fridge. Tamiflu couldn't cure it - am sure vino can grin.

nannynick, will do that too - you should become a cm consultant grin

Blondeshavemorefun Fri 31-Jul-09 19:50:00

vino can cure ANYTHING smile

are you going back as an estate agent?

Blondes, have got job as deputy playgroup leader - 5 mornings a week, term-time only, 4wks paid hols in summer. Good hourly rate - but more important, sanity and adult company grin. Still have EYFS but all planning etc done in works time - and get all hols off with ds [though that could be the downside hmm ]

And vino, yes can cure anything wink

Blondeshavemorefun Fri 31-Jul-09 19:58:10

sounds a fab job,esp as then you get a few hours to yourself in the afternoon

so why do you need a cm then? - can you not drop your ds off at school and then go to your job - or do you have to be there earlier as you are in charge

sorry being a bit thick today smile

<blondes looks at half empty full bottle of wine beside her>

danthe4th Fri 31-Jul-09 19:59:02

I agree with bonkerz I think she has misunderstood that you don't need to be registered for less than 2 hours per day.But you still need a contract to make all the insurance valid and definately the child record forms unless she has her own contracts and doesn't use the ncma stuff. I would ask her that yo would be happier to safeguard being let down on both sides that a contract is used.

Katymac Fri 31-Jul-09 20:36:31

She will still have to do EYFS even if he is at nursery.....that's the bit that keeps tripping up childminders

footychick Sun 02-Aug-09 19:10:57

I think that this CM is seeing looking after your LO as 'baby sitting' ie not requiring contracts, however she is going to have to declare this income if you are using vouchers. If you know her well ask her if her MM insurance covers her if she has not completed their contracts, or better still give them a call and ask them, I know they are not as hot on 'having' to have paperwork complete as NCMA. It will make no difference to her numbers if she does/doesn't use a contract, as she will always have to stay within her ratio's.

I am a CM who uses CM's and I think I would just say I would prefer to use a contract to make the agreement official. If you know and trust her it seems a shame not to use her.

As CM it is hard to understand why a she wouldn't want to cover themselves, even if it is a friend!

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