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assistant advice Nanny Nick are you there?

(13 Posts)
mummysaidno Fri 24-Jul-09 18:54:53

I am registered for three mindees and my own ds one of my mums is expecting a baby she wants me to take baby too. I will be over my numbers she has suggested that I take her neighbour as an assistant, in my home with all checks, crb etc and that she will pay her herself. Does this sound ok?

atworknotworking Fri 24-Jul-09 20:20:12

I'm not Nannynick grin but why doesn't neighbour just register as a CM in her own right if mum is reccommending her?

But then again if you already have one of her DC she probably would like you to continue, I would have thought that she may as well pay you and then you pay assistant IFYSIM, sounds needlessly complicated doing it the other way, if you don't want to go down the tax & ni route with staff have you thought about an assistant being s/employed.

Do you know this lady? I am very choosy about who I pick to work with you have to get on well, as you will be together a lot and you have to have the same standards of care, goals etc.

Have you thought about asking Ofsted for a variation if you feel that you can manage the additional numbers, you may get one as you have sibling and it may only overlap occasionally or for a short period of time if one of your mindees is moving on to school / nursery shortly.

Come to think of it your'e probably right waiting for Nannynick lol lots of options with this conundrum.

atworknotworking Fri 24-Jul-09 20:23:41

Just thinking if you go ahead might be good to have an agreement in place as to who pays for additional memberships, employers liability, fist aid courses, holiday, sick pay etc, you may end up paying out from your own pocket which is a bit hmm if your'e not getting any reward for it unless of course you reg assistant and take more mindees on top of the baby.

Katymac Fri 24-Jul-09 20:25:46

awnw's advise is very good

Don't employ someone on the say-so of someone else

nannynick Fri 24-Jul-09 22:08:10

Not sure why you think I would know the answer to this one, though always nice to be asked for my opinion grin

Having an assistant will not automatically mean you can care for more children, there are other factors to consider as well such as space.
If you will be caring for 4 under 5's for only a few months, then you may find that Ofsted will permit that by issuing a variation due to continuity of care (sibling). If caring for that child would then mean that you are caring for more than 6 under 8's, then that may be more of a problem. How many under 8's do you currently care for? Of those how many are currently under 5? Of those will any be in full time school come the time the mum will need you to care for the baby?

With regard to an assistant. I doubt that Ofsted would care that someone else was paying them. However that would mean that you could not tax deduct their salary. Their salary would not be your business expense.
Employment law wise, I'm not sure about the legalities. The mum could be their employer and could determine the place of work. The mum could I feel authorise you as the persons manager. But I feel the employment contract would be between the person and the mum, not between the person and you... so that may cause problems as you would have to go through the mum for everything.
I would say that you should avoid that situation, instead employ the assistant yourself. You could then double charge the mum for her childcare place, or whatever to help cover the cost. Don't forget that you will need to pay them a salary that is at least National Minimum Wage plus you will need to pay Employers NI, plus you may have additional insurance premium payable (ask your insurer about assistants and employers liability insurance). You will also have additional paperwork, as you will probably need to operate PAYE (it depends on how much the person is paid, if they have another job).

looneytune Sat 25-Jul-09 08:46:16

Not read the whole thread but why not just apply for a variation instead? Either they will agree straight away as the max childminders can have is 6 children in total. If they gave you less numbers because your house is too small then they may not agree but then an assistant wouldn't be approved either as it's to do with space. If you DO have enough space then hopefully they'll put more on your certificate and then if you have a problem with ratios i.e. it will mean 4 under 5's, just ask for a variation to those ratios. They normally allow siblings for 'continuity of care'.

mummysaidno Sat 25-Jul-09 09:21:51

Thanks for replies, thing is I don`t want to get into all tax etc for someone else it makes my brain hurtblush
I already have a variation for four new baby will make five.
I do know the poss assistant she is really nice, I could work with her.
My dilemma is I don`t want to get caught up in money employer issues. I would rather have nothing to do with mayment and am happy to pass the buck to parent iykwim. Also mum wants to pay me and get her tax credits etc and pay assistant cash in hand I just don`t want to be caught up in any money issues. I will be registering her as my assistant with ofstead and doing all I need to do except having no reasponibility for payment. I am sure there must be a pitfall in there for me tough. what do you guys think?

looneytune Sat 25-Jul-09 09:37:43

I don't know how you'll profit from an assistant for 1 mindee? Or am I missing something? The fact you have a variation to allow 4 shouldn't matter, as long as it's within 6 under 8's in total then it should be fine. Can I ask why they didn't give you the full 6 children when they first registered you? When I was at my old house, it was a lot smaller and they put me down for 3 mindees. I had 1 of my own so that meant 4 children under 8 in total. When I moved, we put it up to the full 6 (4 mindees and now I have 2 children of my own). I am now registered to work with an assistant and have 2 more children but I think the only reason I was allowed more children was because she is already registered with Ofsted herself? I'm not sure they'll let you increase your numbers with just any person but I may be wrong. BUT....as I said before, if they'd allow you the assistant and the extra child, wouldn't they let you have the extra child anyway? Or are you talking about 5 under 5's?

Not trying to be negative, just trying to help as I don't see how you can really make any extra money for 1 extra child if you're having to pay an assistant? With my assistant, as she has her own dd, I'd only be allowed ONE extra paid for child and because I pay for food, outings etc, I really wouldn't make any money. The only reason I'd do this is say if someone wanted their child to come to me all week but I'd be over my numbers for 1 day. I'd be happy to make no profit on one day if it meant I got extra income for the other 4 - do you see what I mean?

I apologise if I'm reading the situation all wrong though

nannynick Sat 25-Jul-09 09:42:30

I think you are asking for trouble ... well you did ask what I thought smile

You will be having someone in your home working with the children who is not under your control.

nannynick Sat 25-Jul-09 10:09:45

Ofsted: Factsheet - Childminders Assistants

"Childminders cannot use assistants to replace themselves for long periods of time. Where childminders wish to work with or employ people with the same level of responsibility as themselves then the assistant must register as a childminder."

I am wondering if in terms of the care for this baby, the assistant would be replacing you. Certainly the mum will be paying the assistant to care for her baby... not care for all the children... or is that not the case?

"If we agree, a childminder can use assistants aged 18 and over to look after children off the premises for short periods of time as long as this is agreed in writing by parents and the requirements of the Childcare Register are still met. An example of when we might allow this is for the assistant to collect children from school."

So IF Ofsted agreed you could use an assistant and IF they agreed to a variation to allow you to care for the baby, then you would not be able to leave the assistant at home whilst you did the playgroup/nursery/school run. With parental permission the assistant could take the older children to school but the baby would need to be in your care at all times. So this may create a few problems... such as space in a car - space for the assistant and the baby plus the other children. You already have a variation for 4 children, so that could mean you need a car that seats 4 plus baby plus assistant plus yourself. Do you have a 7/8 seater?

Liability Insurance - I would advise that you get something in writing from your insurer with regard to you being able to use this assistant. The assistant isn't a family member and you are not paying them. The assistant therefore isn't your employee in a monetary sense. Your insurer may not be happy with that, they may insist that the assistant is your employee for your insurance cover to remain valid.

mummysaidno Sat 01-Aug-09 08:59:27

thanks for your advice. Assistant to be is not wanting to pay tax and wants a nice cash in hand job!
All getting above me tbh would be bringing own child too so wouldn`t actually be making much on extra child. It has been hard for me to decide who to lose as without an assistant I wont be able to take all the children and each one has a special place in my heart. Plus it would be nice to have new sibling of minde to continue with family. I realize this is a no brainer though so there will be no hooky assistant and I am going to have to let some parents down sad

atworknotworking Sat 01-Aug-09 12:58:17

I often find it's better not to have all your eggs in one basket.

Yes it would be nice to have another sibling, but have you thought about how your income would drop if they both left, I had 3 from 1 family go last year and it was a big chunk 2 f/t / 1 p/t. Not that I am against siblings have also got 4 other families with 2 or more children, but we have quite a lot of mindees as work with assistant, if your on your own your more limited as to numbers, and this mum sounds a bit hmm in trying to sort you out an assistant cash in hand, do you trust her enough not to use this other lady as a cheaper option?

Oligo Sat 01-Aug-09 13:06:36

If you did do it and then realise you've made a mistake or not enjoying it it would be hard(but not imposs.) to rewind arrangements wihtout affecting relationships and children etc. Better to say no now if you know it wouldn't really be the best thing.

Also why should assistant take more money by not paying tax while you are. You might end up resenting that but stick with it.

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