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would you mind if i asked for less money .

(27 Posts)
45nanny Sat 14-Feb-09 12:16:08

I am looking at taking a two day a week job for two teachers ,so it would be term time only . The nanny's wages are paid over 39 weeks and then divided of 12months so the nanny gets paid in the school hols. I am happy for this to happen , but here lies the problem , i would like to take less an hour than they are offering . I get carers allowance and with the monthly pay they would pay me it means that i would be paying tax and NI( the wages are already below the tax and NI threshold so doing nothing illegal) on the extra money , meaning that i would end up with a lot less take home pay monthly.I really would like this job as the conditions are perfect. This is probably strange a nanny asking for a decrease in pay , but i would really like to work ,but i cant afford to give up my carers allowance and i cant work full time to earn the extra money , that would cover the allowance.

tankie Sat 14-Feb-09 12:17:38

Explain your situation to them, so long as it's over minimum wage should be fine.

45nanny Sat 14-Feb-09 12:23:45

Thanks tankie, it is over the min wage and they sound like nice peolpe , so hopefully they will understand the situation.

melpomene Sat 14-Feb-09 12:28:52

I expect they'd be pleased to pay less! As long as over min. wage. With regard to the Carers Allowance, if you want to keep your earnings below the limit it's worth considering that they disregard half of any pension contributions you make, so it could be worth looking at contributing to a pension if you aren't already. That would also reduce your tax.

Blondeshavemorefun Sat 14-Feb-09 12:36:53

do you have to work one less hour, ie you cant do over 20 a week etc

or do you mean you can only earn £X amount per week before you lose your carers allowance

if it is a cae of earning £10less etc a week dire they will be agreeable,

but if you need to work one hour a week it may be tricky if they need all the hours they employ you

does that make sense?

45nanny Sat 14-Feb-09 12:46:40

BHMF, with carers allowance its not the hours its about the amount you earn . The weekly amount wouldnt be the problem it would be the yearly amount , my carers allowance is taxable and once added to my earning it would take me over my personal allowance . I dont have a problem with paying tax if i was working longer hours , but losing money when i dont earn very much is difficult. I could stay at home and do nothing ,but i'm so bored and i love my work .

nannynick Sat 14-Feb-09 12:47:58

Could salary be split over 52 weeks, rather than 39? Not sure it makes any difference though, as I think how you are describing it, it gets split into monthly payments anyway.
So they are in effect agreeing an ANNUAL salary and splitting that over 12 months.

Anyway, yes you could ask for less, but you can't ask for below National Minimum Wage, as that would then put your employer in a tricky position.

As I understand it, Carers Allowance is considered to be income, so that combined with any job would mean that you are getting to a point where you could exceed the weekly Lower Earnings Limit for NICs.

You only pay income tax on the portion above your personal allowance... so do sit down with a spreadsheet and work though all the figures, to see what difference there actually is.

Is your carers allowance affected by how much you earn (is it income related)?

45nanny Sat 14-Feb-09 12:48:54

melpomene , will look into the pension situation . thanks .

Blondeshavemorefun Sat 14-Feb-09 12:48:55

if it is the amount, then sure your employers would be overjoyed to pay you a bit less grin

ask them

nannynick Sat 14-Feb-09 12:52:01

Could you work one day, and do the other day as a volunteer?

Are you prepared to post the figures, so we can look at the calculations involved?

45nanny Sat 14-Feb-09 13:05:48

NANNYNICK . The amount per hour is £8 net , for 16hrs , i ve been looking at the school term which is 39 weeks , so i have presumed that they times it by 39 weeks and then divide by twelve. Is this the way they would be doing it . ,My CA is £2, 268 annual. This would then take me over my tax allowance, i need to reduce the amount so that it comes under my TA which is £6035.
Not very good at sorting out tax , in fact usless with money altogether.

tankie Sat 14-Feb-09 13:10:14

To reduce your income to less than £6035 including the CA, you'd need to be paid more like £6 gross an hour.

nannynick Sat 14-Feb-09 13:59:49

If you work, you can't earn more than £95 per weeek... or you won't qualify for Carers Allowance - CarersUK: Carers Allowance
That figure I highly suspect is GROSS salary figure.

What other benefits do you get by qualifying for Carers Allowance? Are there any other benefits which are related to it... such as due to qualifying for carers allowance you therefore also get x, y, z?
Pondering if it is worthwhile not getting the Carers Allowance.

The school term may be 39 weeks... it may be 36 weeks... it varies from school to school - so you will need to check that with the teachers concerned. If you can't take holiday during that time, then you need to add it on - so for a 2 day a week job, that is another 11.1 days (which can include Bank Holidays, if they fall on a working day).
So it's possible that you would be paid for around 44 weeks per year.

Why NET! Ahh! Have they said what it is Gross?

If Tax code BR (so no personal allowance to use), £128 NET becomes £168.77 gross per week... £8776 per year.

If Tax free allowance is £6035, then £128 NET per week, is £7027 Gross per year.

Big difference between those Gross salary figures - thus why I always tell employers to agree a GROSS salary.

To keep Carers Allowance, you cannot earn more than £5.93 Gross per hour... if working a 16 hour week.
National Minimum Wage is currently £5.73 (if aged 22+) and is in my view likely to increase. It is horribly near the max figure you can earn to keep carers allowance.
Therefore I feel you need to drop the pay to NMW AND drop the hours if NMW goes up.

Alternatively. If they paid £5.73 per hour for 16 hours per week for 44 weeks of the year... your annual salary would be £4174.72 with combined with £2268 CA, gives £6442.72.
This is still above the tax free allowance of £6035.

This probably isn't helping. Need to know what GROSS Annual Salary they are offering you, to see if it is worth not claiming Carers Allowance. But is not claiming that allowance something you want to do?

nannynick Sat 14-Feb-09 14:04:48

I would suggest you seek professional advise if you intend to take this job. Your situation is more complex than most, so you need to have someone very knowledgeable go through all the figures. CAB may be able to help, as they will know quite a bit about Carers Allowance and how other income could affect that.

45nanny Wed 25-Feb-09 16:18:48

Still looking at the job in question , have spoken to both taxman and carers alllowance , i can earn £95 a week after tax and ni .As i would be using all my personal tax allowance , the wages would come just above that amount .
I still would like to work for them , so before i ask them , would like a few replys from mn employers of nannys, would you if asked for pay me just £95 for the two days work . I would still be earning something and it beetter sitting around doing nothing when i have so much experience to give to a family.

Blondeshavemorefun Wed 25-Feb-09 20:05:45

sure many employers would like to pay £95 for 2 days wink , but the problem i see is that you would be earning less than the mw so it wouldnt be legal

nannynick Wed 25-Feb-09 20:22:01

NMW is currently £5.73 for workers aged 22+

I feel that you are talking awfully close to that amount.

Could you ask for £95 per week after tax and ni, but have it every week... not just the working weeks and holiday.

If you were to then work 39 weeks at 16 hours per week, plus get paid for say 6 weeks of holiday (entitlement is 5.6 weeks as of April 2009), then you will be working 720 hours per year. Based on £95 per week, that would then be: £4275 per year (plus employees tax and employees NI) - so around £5.94 per hour.

If you were to be paid for 16 hours per week, 52 weeks of the year, it is 832 hours per year. So £95 x 52 = £4940. But by only working 720 hours, not the 832, the effective hourly rate increases to £6.86, which should be sufficient to cover NMW regulations for a while.

Can you earn £4940 while remaining in your personal allowance, given your circumstances?

45nanny Thu 26-Feb-09 08:43:04

Thanks NN for repying again . I would only be working term time and they have already told me i will not get holidays including bank holidays and that the money is to be divided over the 52 weeks of the year. .Will be speaking to them friday and see how it all works out . Thanks for your help anyway.

nannynick Thu 26-Feb-09 13:49:51

As an employee, your employer must give you holiday pay. They can dictate when the holiday is, so it can be during school holidays.
95 x 52 is 4940. They are offering 128 plus tax/ni x 39 which ignoring the tax/ni is 4992. So it is better for them to accept paying you £95 per week all year round, regardless of if it is a working week or not.
Do you understand that? It is basic maths, the teachers should jump at it as it saves them money.

45nanny Thu 26-Feb-09 16:59:05

Thanks again Nick, i did ask about holidays and they said they didnt give the nanny holiday pay , because she had all the school hols. When i worked in a school i didnt holiday pay either as i had all the school hols off ,i was paid by the hour and then my wages where also divided over the year. I understand the basic of it and i know that they would be better off , so hopefully it wont be a problem . Thanks again .

nannynick Thu 26-Feb-09 18:26:14

Employment law changes from time to time, I can only tell you what it is now.
Teachers may have different rules, in similar way to them having their pay scale. But you are not a teacher, you don't work for an LEA, so you don't get their rules, or their pension! Standard employment law I feel will apply.
By agreeing to £95 per week all year round, they comply with Employment law and National Minimum Wage legislation.
Glad to have been of help, hope you get the job.

nbee84 Thu 26-Feb-09 18:53:26

Whether you work 10 hours a week or 55 hours a week you are entitled to paid holiday - entitlement to how much as set out by the government.

So, if you work for a teacher and have 13 weeks a year holiday but you are not paid for those 13 weeks then you are not getting any paid holiday. They should work out what paid holiday they should pay you and if it worked out to 5 weeks a year you should get 5 weeks paid and the other 8 of the 13 unpaid.

cheapskatemum Thu 26-Feb-09 20:52:54

Having been in receipt of Carers' Allowance myself, I know why you are reluctant to lose it, when there is the possibility of retaining it. It is a huge rigmarole to go about claiming it again for the weeks you don't earn over £95. It sounds like you have your answer. Your would-be employers pay you just under that, which is just over the NMW. They get paid every week of the year (I'm a teacher, so I know), so I don't see a problem for them.

CAB is still worth a visit, as there are other things as well as pension contributions you can offset against CA, for example, clothing required for the job. I don't know whom you get Carers' Allowance for caring for, but MENCAP had a Family Liaison Officer who was extremely knowledgeable about benefits, when I used to claim it.

Good luck!

45nanny Fri 27-Feb-09 15:31:51

Thanks everyone for your replies . I have been to meet the family today and i have been offered the job . Which i will be accepting. I have worked out my wages and hours with them , we are all happy with the outcome .
Cant wait to start.

nbee84 Fri 27-Feb-09 19:02:52

Congratulations. Hope you really enjoy your new job grin

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