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(24 Posts)
MrsBigD Sun 10-Apr-05 09:16:41

Just wondering as I'm still looking to decide what to do re childcare for as and when I'm going back to work. Need to be able to afford full day childcare for 2 kids...

Childminder is that it's cheaper (around £60-70 per day all up) but not as flexible also have to go there to drop off/pick up kids.

Nanny is more convenient, however with all the tax stuff it's every so expensive. Not sure how much I'd have to pay her before tax so she ends up with roughly £250 a week, but with then the added NI and Tax we'd have to pay... probably quite a bit more than I'd be earning.

So here's my question... is it possible for a nanny to be self employed so the parents don't have to be the employer and pay the Paye etc.?

I'm asking because I think I've found the perfect nanny and she'd coming to the UK just when I'd need someone, but naturally and understandably she wants to work officially and not cash on hand as she wants to start building up a pension...

MaryP0p1 Sun 10-Apr-05 09:50:05

The long and the short of it the answer is no. Nannies are not allowed to be self employed you must employ them and they then have the normal employment rights. An alternative would be to look for a a home childcarer. You can a list of them for social services (early years department). A home childcarer has to registered childminder (so therefore self employed) who have been given permission, under certain conditions, to work in the parents home.

Hope this help.

MrsBigD Sun 10-Apr-05 10:33:59

Thank you for that. I'll have to do some number crunching then, but that probably means I can't hire her cause it will get to expensive shame that.

starshaker Sun 10-Apr-05 10:36:43

not sure about this 1 but i was self emplayed for 2 years as a nanny but i charged extra to cover the costs of tax etc so its 6 and half a dozen really

MrsBigD Sun 10-Apr-05 10:40:03

well yes an no I think as there is NI and tax for the employee and employer I think so not quite 6 to 1/2 dozen

May I ask how much you were charging and how do went upon to be self employed?

Blu Sun 10-Apr-05 10:43:17

People used to set up a system where the nanny had a company and the employer paid the company, so no tax and NI. The gvt got wise to this and closed the loophole a couple of years ago.

How conscientious of them, given the huge scale tax avoidance schemes in operation, to pick on this v small market and hit parents who are already paying for childcare out of taxed income!

I have heard of people who come to a mutual agreement with nannies to operate 'below the line' but I suspect this leaves you in a v risky situation if you ever had to claim on your insurance or something unforseen happened.

There are knock-on costs of having a nanny - heating your house all day in winter, food for nanny and children, expenses for activities and travel if she takes them out, but if you can cover the costs, it certainly works well.

MaryP0p1 Sun 10-Apr-05 10:47:07

I take to mean you have someone in mind. If so what about getting her registered as a childminder then homechildcarer. It does take time but if it mean you can got to work then it might be worth it. She might even get some money from the government to be registered. Where I live there is a grant to every newly registered childminder of about £500 to cover expenses of registering.

starshaker Sun 10-Apr-05 10:47:13

it was a few years ago so not sure about now but i just regestered as self employed with inland rev and that was it i did my own tax etc

Aero Sun 10-Apr-05 10:50:49

Yes, I worked for several years too as a self employed nanny. A pain for me tbh with all the adding up to do for the tax return each year, but my employers insisted it was the way to do it and I wasn't any the wiser at the time.
I think the reason it was ok was that I was working for them only three days per week and then the other two days with other families. If I'd been full time for them, then I would have had to have been 'employed'.
I think I read on a thread somewhere that some loophole has now been closed though that allowed nannies to be self-employed.
However, I heard there is a newish thing now that you can have a registered childminder come to you in your own home AFAIK. It's worth ringing either OFSTED, or your local children's service or even NCMA to see if this is correct (or if it's just a rumour I heard somewhere)!! Though it wouldn't help you if you've already found someone you like, if she's not a registered cm. Sorry if that info is incorrect, but I'm sure I heard it somewhere, so might be worth investigating.

MrsBigD Sun 10-Apr-05 11:20:06

Thanks for all the info
Marypop1, yes I have a young woman in mind, I spoke to her and her references are excellent (she's still in Austria) and no committment from either of us yet until we've met in person. I will suggest the childminder/home childcare to her, but as she'll be new to the country that might be a bit daunting for her.

Anybody know where I can get my hands on a list of home child carers?

MaryP0p1 Sun 10-Apr-05 11:39:32

Your local council's early years department will have a list of them.

Aero Sun 10-Apr-05 11:41:14

Your local Children's Information Service should be able to provide you with a list of home childcarers. It should be in the phone book with therest of your local council numbers.

jothorpe Sun 10-Apr-05 13:40:40

The Home Childcarer Scheme is no longer in operation. It was officially terminated on 6th April 2005, upon the introduction of the Childcare Approval Service.

Some CIS's may still be listing Home Childcarers but certainly my local one has said that it is not going to be listing Approved Childcarers (those who are approved under the Childcare Approval Scheme).

jothorpe Sun 10-Apr-05 13:43:35

With regard to a nanny being self-employed, Inland Revenue do not allow it. However, if the nanny didn't call themselves a nanny but instead called them selves a Maternity Nurse, Childcare Consultant etc then they might be able to get the Self-Employed forms through the system.

However, is it really beneficial to the nanny to be self-employed. Far more employment rights if they are have employed status - which I suspect is why the Government wants to keep Nannies as employed persons.

jothorpe Sun 10-Apr-05 13:48:12

While I'm thinking about it... now that Nannies can be 'Approved Childcarers', they can be paid using Childcare Vouchers, thus we can save the Tax & NI on the first £50 each week. Your employer however does need to be part of the scheme, and self-employed people don't seem to be able to benefit at all. But if both parents are working for employers who are on the scheme, they could save on Tax & NI payments for the first £100 each week.
All a bit complex. Care-4 has information leaflet about Childcare Vouchers - hunt google for the website.

MrsBigD Sun 10-Apr-05 14:35:56

thanks for all that... my head is spinning!
Might be easier to try and find a childminder... yeah right! In our area there are plenty but it's a high child area thanks to popular school and the cm's charge accordingly... argh... decisions, decisions, decisions

ssd Sun 10-Apr-05 15:34:10

marypop1, where do you live? In my area there are absolutely no grants or financial help available to help with start up costs. It cost me quite a bit. Which is part of the reason I'm always banging on here about the lowly rates we command as childminders being unfair.

MrsBigD Sun 10-Apr-05 17:19:34

ssd don't get me wrong... but the lowly rate cm's get is the only way I'll probably be able to return to work Though I do see your point.

I just wish the gov would support mothers that want to return to work so we can afford it. The cm I used to have (unfortunately she's gone back to Pakistan) thankfully only charged £3ph for dd. Have been looking around the area where we moved to now and it's a minimum of £5ph which times 2 kids and 10h a day = more than my net income ... argh

MaryP0p1 Sun 10-Apr-05 17:28:42

ssd, I live in Essex. Well I live in Essex for a maximum of 3 weeks then I move to Italy. YEEEEESSSSSSSS.

ssd Sun 10-Apr-05 17:30:42

I remember now! .

MaryP0p1 Sun 10-Apr-05 17:35:32

Where are u SSD?

artyjoe Mon 11-Apr-05 16:18:58

MrsBigD, where are you based?

CM's around here charge £5 per hour for the first child but some offer a discounted rate for full time siblings, I know we intend to.

Have you tried a CM working as part of a husband/wife team so you could maybe have an arrangement whereby one picks the children up from you rather than you drop them off?

I hope you find a solution soon - Joe

TotallyAshamed Mon 11-Apr-05 16:22:27

Where are you MrsBigD?

CMs round here (including myself!) charge £3 per hour, less for siblings.

MrsBigD Mon 11-Apr-05 16:31:25

I'm in West Ealing bordering Ealing at Pitshanger Lane. on the other side of Argyle road the average seems to be £3/h this side of Argyle Road £5/h. So affordable, however as I don't know which nursery/school dd will be going to from September leaves me a bit of a bind re school runs

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