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What is the definition of 'early years age group'?

(19 Posts)
SillyMillysMummy Sat 01-Nov-08 09:31:35

My reg cert states
5 children under 8 years; of these, not more than 2 may be in the early years age group, and of these, not more than 1 may be under 1 year at any one time

I asked ofsted if that included my own dd and they have said

The maximum numbers of children for whom a childminder may care are as follows:

6 children under 8 years of age;
Of these 6, no more than 3 children may be young children (a child is a young child up until 1st September following his or her sixth birthday);
Of these 3, normally no more than 1 child may be under 1.

So they have used completely different language in both, does 'early years age group' really take in children up to 6? My dd will have been in full time schooling for 2 years by then shock, so i need to keep one of the 3 places allowed for her!

looneytune Sat 01-Nov-08 09:57:04

1) the certificate is for MINDED children and therefore your own should have been deducted from the full numbers they've agreed you can have (not that they make this very clear!!)

2) I thought it was 31st August following their FIFTH birthday but I'm not at all surprised that Ofsted are saying something totally different. My belief is that the Early Years age group is the new term for Under 5's and like when it used to be that children were classed as an over 5 once they attend FULL TIME school, I think they are classed as outside of the Early Years Group once they attend full time school.

I'll see what others come back with but I'm sure there is some wording somewhere that confirms they can be outside of the Early Years ratios once at school all day?

SillyMillysMummy Sat 01-Nov-08 10:22:04

looneytune, thanks yes, i now understand that my own dd is excluded from those numbers.

At the end of the day my certificate states 'early years age group', I have asked by email to ofsted the definition of 'early years age group' but wouldnt be surprised it i get an even more confusing answer hmm I thought i had read somewhere that when they were in 10 sessions of schooling per week that they were no longer classed in the age group, cant find it though sad

tulip31 Sat 01-Nov-08 10:37:45

Hello
My understanding is that this should read - Of these 6, no more than 3 children may be young children (a child is a young child up until 31st August following his or her fifth birthday);

Its very long but it is in here
(copied from ofsted website)

Hope this helps in any way grin

SillyMillysMummy Sat 01-Nov-08 10:52:03

oo yes it does kind of , states 'birth to 31st aug following 5th birthday is known as early years age group' however my guess is that it probably mean that, unless they are in 10 session of education a week hmm as if not i would be keeping a full time place open for my dd will be at school for 1 year.

mum2akebk Sat 01-Nov-08 11:17:51

I have recently e-mailed Ofsted about this as my daughter will be in full time school in two weeks time, although she wont be 5 until next April.

I wanted my certificate amended to show that she will be in full time school and classed as a rising 5 for ratio purposes. I have received a call back saying that this will be no problem and a new certificate will be forthcoming which will enable me to care for another pre-school child.

Hth.

tulip31 Sat 01-Nov-08 11:33:30

Try here this what ncma has issued!!

SillyMillysMummy Sat 01-Nov-08 11:54:10

hmm so we are actually no further forward lol, ofsted has said to mum2akebk that rising 5's dont count, yet ncma says they havent confirmed it

looneytune Sat 01-Nov-08 12:14:13

Oh dear, I'm currently looking after a 4 year old who is at school full time in Reception class. Her birthday is next month. Does this mean I shouldn't be looking after her? hmmangry

SillyMillysMummy Sun 02-Nov-08 00:21:38

right found it grin

Each childminder may care for:
■■ a maximum of six children under the age of eight;
■■ of these six children, a maximum of three may be young children**, however where four- and
five-year-old children only attend the childminding setting before and/or after a normal school
day, they may be classed as children over the age of five for the purposes of the adult:child ratio;

**4 A child is a young child up until 1st September following his or her fifth birthday.

and that is Appendix 2
Specific legal requirements for ratios of adults to children (as required by
page 32 of this document)

SillyMillysMummy Sun 02-Nov-08 00:26:29

but, thinking about it. When that 4 or 5 year old who is in normally in full time school, then needs to be minded in school holidays (and therefore ceases to attend the childminding setting just before and after school), does that mean he counts as a young child again? hmm god this is confusing

JenniPenni Sun 02-Nov-08 00:42:33

SillyMilly, I would then apply for a variation for him if need be for the holiday periods.

SillyMillysMummy Sun 02-Nov-08 11:49:55

ok, so i understand that i can have 2 full time 'early years age group' kids plus my own. But can i fill my own daugthers place whilst she is at preschool? but then i suppose that might cause a problem if she was ill etc, sorry just thinking out loud here

looneytune Sun 02-Nov-08 11:52:52

Right, I'm ok with my adhoc reception age child as she's TT only, but what about this one......mindee is 4 and half and attends school all day. They only need someone adhoc in the holidays, does this mean I'm not allowed to have her as she'd then be classed as a Young Child??? hmm

SillyMillysMummy Sun 02-Nov-08 13:29:27

it does seem so sad my dd will be in that position, she starts full time school just after her 4th birthday, so i am presuming seen as she will be here more than just before and after school (as in out of term time) that they will class her as a young child. its very confusing

KatyMac Sun 02-Nov-08 13:38:06

OK - I spoke to the head of NCMA about this during my medja appearance

A child before the 31st Aug after their 5th birthday still needs you to do EYFS obs etc

But once they are in f/t school they don't count as a young child either before or after school or during the holidays

Straight from the horses mouth (so to speak) Oh & I also spoke to the head of inspection in the East about it & the above info is correct...honest

SillyMillysMummy Mon 03-Nov-08 10:42:52

Katymc

so does that mean that my observations only need be done on the early years children?

KatyMac Mon 03-Nov-08 10:53:59

Yup - I think so up to the 31t Aug after their 5th Birthday

But your ratios are different - they stop being EY when they start school for 10 sessions (but you still need to do Obs)

SillyMillysMummy Mon 03-Nov-08 10:56:42

lol, clear as mud then hmm

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