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I'm getting confused- a nanny MUST be an employee, but they don't actually need a qualification...

(37 Posts)
oops Thu 11-Sep-08 17:00:03

Message withdrawn

mogs0 Thu 11-Sep-08 17:07:50

That is right!!

nannynick Thu 11-Sep-08 17:08:01

That is about right at present... yes.

There is no requirement for a nanny to have any kind of training. Our government isn't interfering in family life to quite that extent yet - though who knows when they will!

If you want to pay a nanny using Childcare Vouchers, or Tax Credits... then they need to be registered.

Anna8888 Thu 11-Sep-08 17:09:31

People don't necessarily require Training and Qualifications to do a good job.

You can assess their skills yourself using your own judgement at interview and during their trial period.

LadyMuck Thu 11-Sep-08 17:14:29

You are the employer so you can decide what qualifications or experience (if any) is needed. You are responsible for paying Employer's NI and for deducting PAYE and Employee's NI and passing this on to HMRC. You have to set up contract, provide itemised payslips, provide a safe working environment etc.

Ripeberry Thu 11-Sep-08 17:18:12

So really childminders are nursery teachers then! That's what they seem to be trying to do with EYFS.

MilaMae Thu 11-Sep-08 17:29:49

Personally I'm appalled at how little qualifications nannies need having just jumped through several hoops to become a childminder.

I'm an ex primary teacher with 3 dc of my own and have had to do a 1st aid course, 2 courses on becoming a childminder,an enhanced CRB check,an OFSTED inspection and a health check signed by my GP.

Nannies on the other hand need to do none of that which I think is a pretty poor state of affairs. Children should come first and relying on parents to ensure all the above checks are carried out are not in the childs best interest.Not all parents will necessarily do it, know how to or will simply rely on agencies who say they've done their own checks.

Can't get my head round it just seems ludicrous.

cthea Thu 11-Sep-08 17:36:38

I think it's just fine as it is TBH. I would want a nanny to have some experience, have a CRB check etc but the most important thing is to feel I can trust her and that she has good references from other parents.

The "enhanced CRB check,an OFSTED inspection and a health check signed by my GP" are important but not qualifications.

LadyMuck Thu 11-Sep-08 17:47:29

MilaMae, out of interest which of your qualfications do you think has most prepared you for the role of childminder? Being a primary teacher or the 2 courses on being a childminder. Or the experience of bringing up 3 children? If you had to choose someone to look after your children who could only have one of the 3, which would you choose and why?

From my perspective I would probably value your experience as a mother first, your teacher second and the childminding course last and by a long ways least.

LadyMuck Thu 11-Sep-08 17:48:44

And the follow-up question - what did you learn on the childminding course that was significant and new for you?

MilaMae Thu 11-Sep-08 17:51:35

The child minding courses are crap, a complete waste of time for me personally as I know how to keep young children amused and safe but does everybody?

MilaMae Thu 11-Sep-08 17:53:02

Sorry didn't read the first bit,exactly as you have just listed it mum 1st,teaching next,course last.

MilaMae Thu 11-Sep-08 17:55:58

There were a couple of young girls on my course with no dc or experience with young children so they I presume would have found it useful.

nannynick Thu 11-Sep-08 17:56:07

Nannies can:
have an enhanced CRB check (done via an agency, or via Ofsted)
have an Ofsted Inspection (as part of Ofsted Childcare Register)
have a medical (employers could request that)
have childcare training
have first aid training
have insurance

A nanny could have all that, and still be useless at caring for children. In the same way as a childminder is required to have all that and could still be useless with children.

Ripeberry - Yes, Childminders are like a mini-nursery now under EYFS. Government wants all children educated from a young age, and can insist upon that where the child is being cared for outside of their own home.

LadyMuck Thu 11-Sep-08 17:56:10

That's why you assess them at an interview, look at their references and use a trial period, and in general use your instincts as a parent to choose someone who would work best in your household.

If your course was crap then why does it make you a "better" childcare provider than if you didn't have the qualification?

And if someone is instinctively crap at childcare, then do you really think that the course would have transformed them?

If not, then the fact that you have this qualification doesn't really mean a lot does it?

LadyMuck Thu 11-Sep-08 17:57:41

Would you have been happy leaving say a 2yo with either of the girls on your course who had no experience (other than the course)?

MilaMae Thu 11-Sep-08 18:08:12

Tough question probably not but knowing Ofsted had done pretty rigorous checks on them would make me feel happier than leaving them with somebody who hadn't ie a nanny who hadn't had health checks,enhanced CRB,paed 1st aid etc.

I'm aware the vast majority of nannies are great and there must be many childminders who aren't but just feel the currant situation re nannies just isn't good enough.

AtheneNoctua Thu 11-Sep-08 18:14:19

As a nanny employer I am adomately opposed to compulsory licensing/qualifications for nannies. I am far more qualified to decide what skills my nanny needs than the government is.

They have proven this with the introduction of these silly new EYFS requirements. For example, DS is starting at the nursery which is attached to the primary where DD goes. She is in year 1. For DS, they are going to send a book home with him every Friday which we are to read to him. They did not do this when DD was in the nursery so presumably it is part of EYFS. Do think my 3 year old is going to read by the end of nursery? Does he need to? Personally, I prefer a bit more focus on how to properly ram the trains together. He is 3! Besides, we read books all the time. This really didn't need formalising. I wonder if I'll have to write book reports for him?

MilaMae Thu 11-Sep-08 18:17:57

You are Athene but not all parents are.

SunshineSmith Thu 11-Sep-08 18:19:07

Having no qualifications doesn't equate to non experienced.

I am more than happy to leave my baba with a non qualified carer.

To be honest most of the nannies I interviewed that had an impressive cv in paper- ie_ qualifications, diplomas, etc.... really dissapointed me in person.
One even told me not to expect to cover my children in kisses in the first day...Uhum!!! Weird, right?

LadyMuck Thu 11-Sep-08 18:19:47

But tbh the enhanced CRB check isn't that helpful is it? One of the workers at ds1's preschool served a prison sentence for a violent crime within 12 months of starting work at the preschool (I knew this as I was her church pastor). This was never disclosed to any parents, but the setting is Ofsted registered with a good report.

As regards your signed health check, how detailed was the exam? Did it cover mental health etc?

To say that you can't trust parents to choose a suitable nanny is a bit much, and I'm not convinced that regulation is the way to go. The lady who currently nannies for me in school holidays works as a TA in a local primary school reception class and has 3 children of her own. Whether she would be as keen to nanny if it meant extra courses and paperwork I'm not sure but it would be a shame to lose people like this because of regulation which really doesn't much to enhance things.

nannynick Thu 11-Sep-08 18:20:31

He will probably have to write book reports himself!

LadyMuck Thu 11-Sep-08 18:22:21

Well working parents who afford nannies usually have some qualifications themselves.

If anything I think that the mistake for new mums is that they trust too much in the qualifications and shy away from unqualified nannies as they don't always appreciate the value of experience. I soon learnt!

MilaMae Thu 11-Sep-08 18:24:17

Yes it does cover mental health.

But once she'd had all the checks done it would be job done and she'd have all the documentation needed to take to her next job. It's only the paed 1st aid that needs to be done again(lasts 3 years).

MilaMae Thu 11-Sep-08 18:26:41

It's not fancy qualifications that bother me but the basic checks. The health check is a detailed form filled out by you and your GP. They basically go through your records.

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