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Cm Club - For crying out loud!

(23 Posts)
LoveMyGirls Thu 31-Jul-08 08:53:21

Right I'll try to be quick......

I'm full for under 5's but old mindees mum is going back to work after mat leave and has asked me to have mindee and baby (mindee will be 4 and at school) I can make space for baby and should be able to have mindee if ofsted are counting her as over 5.

I asked ofsted and they are saying they don't know if they are going to count her as over 5 or not, I really need to know because until I know I don't know if I can do contracts. Mum is saying she isn't prepared to take the risk of me having 1 child but not the other but she doesn't want to use anyone else but me. I don't want to give notice to the 14mth old I have because I've had him from 7mths and adore him plus he's ft and 4yr old is at school so not finacially viable to give 1 family my under 5 spaces.

Ofsted are saying because we didn't do contracts for older mindee to return and mum didnt pay a retainer that it is classed as new business angry

I'm really upset because I thought it would be simple but because ofsted can't make up their mind I'm going to lose this customer and these children sad I really love this family it's so rare to get famillies that don't take you for granted etc sad.

What can I do? OFSTED will not give me a definate answer about which age group 4yr old will be in by october.

KaySamuels Thu 31-Jul-08 08:57:04

My variation request was turned down recently, mindee left, then before notiperiod up wanted to stay but I had settled in a new child. They didn't agree they were all existing mindees.

It makes me angry to think of cms and parents being messed about while ofsted fidde with the rule book. angry

Love2bake Thu 31-Jul-08 08:58:23

I thought it was clear cut, once they are in full time school, they are classed as over 5.

KaySamuels Thu 31-Jul-08 08:59:09

yes me too love2bake hmm

LoveMyGirls Thu 31-Jul-08 09:00:33

They are saying due to the changes EYFS will bring they are not sure what age group mindee will be in.

PinkChick Thu 31-Jul-08 09:00:35

did you write to them LMG?, if the 4yr old is full time school, then the only issue would be during hols?, when is she 5?, would you HAVE the space for a 4 yr old during hols?, can you up your ratios at all(ie have you got 4, but now could ask for 5?)
if you ahdnt write to them id do that now, detailing why the mum wants them to come back, say it took a long time for 4yr old to settle, fit in, be comfortable and now wants to come back so you can pick up were you left off and help her develop and grow in confidence(use EYFS terminology!wink)..good luck

southernbelle77 Thu 31-Jul-08 09:32:49

See this is what is silly as I had pretty much the same thing and ofsted agreed my variation with my own dd being the 'rising 5'. So I have 4 under 5's until she starts school in September and then she will count as a rising 5, and if she doesn't, well ofsted have agreed the variation 'until one of the named children turn 5' anyway. So why would this be different for you? The child I was asking a variation for (to take dd's space) was new business.

I never phoned ofsted though. I just wrote to them detailing everything and then called to see if it had been agreed (needed it within the week!) and they said it was fine.

Write to them detailing it all and see what happens.

I'm sure I read somewhere (in a review of eyfs from ofsted I'm sure) that rising 5's will still count as rising 5's under eyfs.

MrsFluffleHasAWuffle Thu 31-Jul-08 09:43:30

southernbelle, that's my understanding too, as long as it's full time school from the start, not part time for a few weeks etc etc

jillyj Thu 31-Jul-08 10:05:03

i have been told on various occasions that once they are 4 and in full time ed they are 5s. keep ringing, and asking, you will get someone who tells you its ok. take there name and do it. they make me so sick. they should spend more time sorting all the unregistered minders out.....moan moan

LoveMyGirls Thu 31-Jul-08 12:07:44

I wrote to them asking for 4 under 5 and the rising 5 they said no which i understood but I said ok if I can make a space for the baby can I have 3 under 5 and the rising 5, they said well we're not sure if you can under the eyfs etc but we don't know yet, can't guarantee it will be ok etc so now mum is really upset and stayed up until 2am trying to think of ways around it, I said we could go ahead and it will more than likely be fine but she wants me to give her 100% garantee I won't not have her eldest, I could say I'm willing to give notice to my other ft mindee to accomodate her eldest as I'm pretty sure it will be ok but how can I make her feel better about it all?

Thinking of ringing ncma and early years and ofsted again?

MrsFluffleHasAWuffle Thu 31-Jul-08 12:34:52

I can't believe with September looming fast that they still haven't got a stock definitive answer about this!!

Plague them with emails and as soon as you get one that says yes, keep it and work by it.

LoveMyGirls Thu 31-Jul-08 12:58:44

Just rang early years and they have said it's definitly fine so I've givben the number to mindee's mum so she can speak to them herself, she says she'll call me back in a few days.

MrsFluffleHasAWuffle Thu 31-Jul-08 13:08:24

great news grin

LoveMyGirls Thu 31-Jul-08 13:11:38

I'm just worrying now that she's had doubts put in her mind that she will still decide it's best to put them both in nursery sad although I have looked after older mindee for 6mths and can do the hours she wants that the after school club can't, I thought she'd be really pleased I'd sorted it out but she didn't sound pleased, maybe she's jsut shocked and will be happier once she's spoken to the early years people.

LoveMyGirls Thu 31-Jul-08 13:56:40

I'm going to ring the NC MA in a minute because I'm not only worrying about this I've also got another family who are not paying me at the moment and I need advice on that too, it's really not going well plus it's dd1's birthday and we're going on hols so I need to pack (was really excited about the holiday but now I'm just really really worried we'll be spending money we havent got sad)

LoveMyGirls Thu 31-Jul-08 14:11:48

I rang NCMA at 12pm they gave me a number to call and said it opened at 2pm NOW none of them are answering the phone and there is an answer machine saying they are shut I'm so bloody annoyed! I just want some help.

LoveMyGirls Thu 31-Jul-08 14:13:06

Ok now I'm in a cue well that's something at least I might get to speak to someone.

ThatBigGermanPrison Thu 31-Jul-08 14:17:46

I thought 4 year olds at school were rising fives? And therefore classed as 5 years and over?

OFSTED need to get their thumb out of their arse.

nannynick Fri 01-Aug-08 00:46:08

Source: Teachernet EYFS Clarifications and Faqs

~~ Begin Quote ~~
How will Ofsted apply the ratios regarding the ages of the children who can be cared for? Currently a four-year-old who is attending school full time can be counted as over five years old for the purposes of the adult:child ratio. If this arrangement is not continued it will affect numbers and sustainability of childminding settings. What is the position on this likely to be?

The National Standards stipulate that four-year-old children who attend 10 early-education sessions a week may be classed as children over five for the purpose of adult:child ratio. The EYFS Statutory Framework document uses slightly different wording. It states that four— and five-year-old children who only attend the childminding setting before and/or after the school day may be counted as over five for the purposes of the adult:child ratio. The change in wording does not result in a change in the legal requirement. Reference is made to children attending the childminding setting before and after the school day only to specify which children may be counted as five. Therefore, the EYFS does not prevent four— and five-year-olds who attend school full time from being counted as over fives during the school holidays.

~~ End Quote ~~

To me, the important bits of that seem to be:
"The change in wording does not result in a change in the legal requirement."
"the EYFS does not prevent four— and five-year-olds who attend school full time from being counted as over fives during the school holidays."

So are they saying it is Ok to say they are age 5 for ratio purposes during school holidays?

MrsFluffleHasAWuffle Fri 01-Aug-08 07:21:18

Yes, thats the bit I have seen, just couldn't remember were it was - and yes it says clear as mud day there that there is no change in the legal requirements, therefore it is the same for a rising 5 as it was previously

LoveMyGirls Fri 01-Aug-08 07:52:24

Thanks, I spoke to the NCMA yesterday and they said they think it's going to be changed in september, I rang Early years who did my EYFS training and they said definitly staying as it is now and will be fine. Ofsted did say to me if I could find a place for the baby then if it turned out the 4yr old wasn't classed as over 5 I could get a variation and as long as I'd got the baby it would be classed as continuity of care so I've agreed with the mum to do contracts mid august (Hurray!!!!!!!!!!) The other family have decided it's best to end our contract I have offered to drop the fee slightly if they can pay me by the end of the notice period otherwise it will go to court and they will have to pay the full amount plus court costs. Fingers crossed for me that it all works out ok please.

Thanks again for being here to support me smile

PinkChick Fri 01-Aug-08 08:38:46

glad it all getting sorted chick, hope it works out well..we're too soft really arn't wehmm

LoveMyGirls Fri 01-Aug-08 08:47:00

Sometimes I think we are you know. Some days I love being a childminder and feel proud of my little business and earning my own money etc other days the upset and stress could almost break me.

I know once I'm sorted in october it will be fine, if all goes well I'll have 2 mindees from old family who were always fab at picking up and paying and their dd was lovely and I'm sure baby will be great too, I'll have ft 18mth old who is a darling and mum is a diamond, plus 10yr old before and after school whose mum is on my wavelength so fingers crossed I'll finally be stable for at least 1 year so we can save for our wedding and sort ourselves out money wise!

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