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rising 5?

(10 Posts)
mamanoodle Mon 28-Jul-08 10:28:25

Hiya - wondered if anyone could help me with the following problem?!

My little boy is starting school in september at the age of 4 and a half. Both himself and my daughter are at the same childminder, Anne, DS being there before and after school, DD there all day...my childminder has 3 under-fives there on a wednesday, including my daughter.

When DS starts school he'll be on half days initially. One childminder has said that Anne can look after her 3 under-fives plus DS, as he's classed as rising 5, and so 'technically' he counts as being 5 and over. Another has said that his age is his age and so Anne can't look after him on Wednesdays (all other days are fine...!)

IF this makes any sense to anyone i'll be amazed, and if anyone can tell me what the position is or a number or an email I can find out about things from, I'd be very grateful!

Thanks,

ems x

looneytune Mon 28-Jul-08 10:31:32

He will be classed as an UNDER 5 until he attends school ALL DAY. Once he's going all day, even if he's still 4 he will be classed as an OVER 5.

HTH

Fadge Mon 28-Jul-08 10:33:05

as above

nannynick Mon 28-Jul-08 11:04:54

Then there is issue of school holidays. The new EYFS was changing things such that a rising 5, was classed as being 4 years old during school holidays. Needless to say, childminders were not happy about this.
Anyone know if Ofsted have actually published something about that yet?

mamanoodle Mon 28-Jul-08 11:15:57

OK brilliant thanks for your help! x

nannynick Mon 28-Jul-08 11:16:25

Found a reference to this in an Ofsted document (which for some reason still isn't on their website).
Document Title: Follow up to the local authority briefings. Issue 1 June 2008
~~ Begin Quote ~~
86. Childminders – four year olds treated as five year olds – will there be any change?
There are subtle differences between the wording of the National Standards and EYFS Statutory Framework document that make this particular requirement difficult. The National Standards refer to four-year-old children who attend 10 early education sessions a week counting as age five for the purpose of the ratios. It makes no reference to when those children might attend a childminder. However the EYFS Statutory Framework document makes specific reference to children only attending childminding before and after a school day as being the criteria for counting such children as over five for the purpose of the ratios. This means if these children attend at any other times rather than before or after a school day we cannot count them as over five during these times.

We are still in discussions with lawyers and the Department for Children, Schools and Families about any leeway in interpreting this.

~~ End Quote ~~

So for now, a 4 year old may still be classed as being 4 during school holidays.

bigdonna Mon 28-Jul-08 15:42:29

as its only for one afternnon they may allow it!!!

southernbelle77 Mon 28-Jul-08 16:06:54

Ofsted have just agreed a variation for me on the basis that dd is going to school full time in September although will not turn 5 until next June!

Not sure what it means though for the after schoolie I have taken on who is also not 5 until next July in the holidays.

I thought I read in the stuff ofsted sent me about revised eyfs wording that rising 5 would count as an over 5 in the holidays. I will try and find it. Or maybe I was making it up in the hope that is what it said

Fadge Mon 28-Jul-08 16:44:45

no southernbelle, I am sure I have seen reference to it too, will see if I can find it, it would have been on www.childmindinghelp.co.uk somewhere....

abba1772 Mon 28-Jul-08 18:54:31

i phoned ofsted today as i need info regarding a variation for the same case and was told they will only be classed as a rising 5 when they start to attend 10 sessions a week (morning and afternoon session)

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