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Rate of pay for childcare

(17 Posts)
Remiggio Tue 10-May-16 08:18:02

An 'aunt' (close friend of MIL) is going to be looking after DS for 7hrs a week. I've offered to pay & wanted to know how much the going rate was (we're in the north east) because I've a feeling she'll undersell herself & I don't want to take advantage. I have asked her what she'd like but she hasn't got back to me yet. This figure could help me start discussions without her thinking I'm taking the mick.

Cindy34 Tue 10-May-16 09:41:16

Paying for childcare will throw up lots of legal issues. Would she come to your home to do the childcare, that would resolve some of the issues and it would be give you a minimum amount to pay - £7.20 per hour, National Living Wage (as I guess she may be aged 25+). Maximum amount of £111.99 a week, as then IF it is their only income you don't need to register as an employer with HMRC - if they are pension age and getting pension payments then that is considered to be income for tax purposes.

Childminder rates would be lower, often £4-6 per hour that is a different setup and you can't really compare it to one-to-one care. A nanny would be on at least minimum wage, probably quite a bit higher but would depend on experience, qualifications and location.

Remiggio Tue 10-May-16 10:28:57

Didn't realise there was a difference between the two, she'd be more of a nanny/childminder. She looks after her grandsons so our ds would join them. She's like family & looked after my OH when little.

Thank you

Maryann1975 Tue 10-May-16 11:11:03

I agree with cindy, if you pay her to do it there are lots of legal issues to consider. A nanny works in your house and would need paying minimum wage. You would also be responsible for any tax/ni deductions/payments and she would be your employee.
If she is working in her own home and looking after your child your over 2 hours in any one day, legally, she would need to be registered with ofsted. She would then be self employed, so sort her own tax etc.
I know that isn't what you are asking though.
I'm in the Midlands and pay for a cm is between £3-4 but this gets you a qualified, first aid trained and insured childminder. The nanny jobs I see advertised are often for between £7-8 round here.

Cindy34 Tue 10-May-16 14:07:39

Your DS is not a grandson of hers, thus that creates legal issues. Childcare in the UK is regulated and has been since the 1950's. Whilst the rules may get in the way at times like this, they are there to protect children. How you describe things, she will need to be a Registered Childminder to care for your DS. So this may be a non-starter. She does not need to be registered to care for her own grandchildren.

jclm Tue 10-May-16 17:33:39

You could either pay her nanny rates and set up as her employer, or you could simply allow her to offer you this service for free but cover all her expenses eg petrol, food, activities, etc of about £20 per day?

AndNowItsSeven Tue 10-May-16 17:36:14

a friend babysitting does not need to be registered. North of England about £25 would be about right for seven hours. Ten hour nursery charge £35.

MumsKnitter Tue 10-May-16 19:04:13

What a palaver some pp's are making of this! So long as you are clear that you have no come back in terms of suing in the event of any accident, then you can just pay her cash every week. I would give her £30.

superram Tue 10-May-16 19:25:32

If she is not looking after him more than 2 hours a day she doesn't need to register as a cm, if it is more and in her own home then she does. Depends if you are happy with an illegal set up where the carer does not have insurance, many people would be, I would pay £5 an hour in the ne.

Remiggio Tue 10-May-16 19:46:53

mumsknitter Wonder how people manage when paying someone they know to babysit now & again? Do they have to sign contracts?!

Thanks all for info. Know what I need to do now...

Willow2016 Tue 10-May-16 22:17:27

Remiggio Tue 10-May-16 19:46:53

mumsknitter Wonder how people manage when paying someone they know to babysit now & again? Do they have to sign contracts?!

Thanks all for info. Know what I need to do now...

Child minders looking after other peoples kids in their own homes for payment are not babysitters!

Babysitters look after your kids in your home for a specified time now and again, not on a regular contract nor in their own homes. They do not need qulifications, first aid, public liability insurance, car insurance, to be registered etc etc.

Paying someone to look after your child in their own home for more than 2 hours a day is ilegal end of. What you do with that info is up to you. If you are prepared to take the responsibility for your own kids while you arent there (and therefor liable for anything that could happen to them while in her care) and deal with the fall out from police and hmrc (towards both you and your partner and your friend) if someone 'grasses her up' for doing it then thats your call.

I see the attraction of it but I also know the legalities.

jannier Tue 10-May-16 22:39:06

A friend of your MIL is not a friend or family.

Children have accidents and can get scared or worse, as she will have no insurance you would have to her for compensation (or your child has until the age of 21 to sue you, which they may be for do if any accident was disabling) If the nice lady drives with your child she will be an uninsured driver....things to think about.

Has she got first aid training? Has she any qualifications does she pay for any overheads like equipment.....so basically if she doesn't anything over £2 and hour is more than a legal insured and registered (so vetted and crb'd) child-minder would be earning Add to that the fact you cant claim tax credits or if your company does the childcare vouchers and that you will also breaking the law if you use her for more than 2 hours a day...

Then look at the activities she can do...going out is going t risky as she may be reported, does she paint, have sand and messy play, does she prepare your child school with the activities they do? If she does why has she not bothered to register? Is it just that she doesn't want to pay tax or is there more like a family member that would prevent her from registering? Would she tell you if there was?

Only you can decide if paying less than the going rate of £3 to £4.50 and hour is worth the risk.

Remiggio Wed 11-May-16 02:47:12

Can I ask, if she were to decline payment would these legal matters still be an issue? We trust her implicitly & is caring for 3 children already (after already raising more)

HSMMaCM Wed 11-May-16 11:26:47

She should be registered as a cm, but she could offer free care and you could accidentally drop some money on her table each week.

Do bear in mind all the previous comments about insurance, first aid, training, etc.

Artandco Wed 11-May-16 11:36:21

A nanny - works in your home. You are employer. Have to offer sick pay/ maternity etc. Min wage

Babysitter - after 7pm, in your home, doesn't need to be registered. No min wage or employee status

Childminder - works in their own home. Ofsted registered, has to comply with eyfs. Chooses income per hour. Has to be trained/ first aid etc

Your friend of mil sounds like she should be registered as a childminder then.

The way around it would be not to pay her directly, but to buy stuff for the same cost each week. So if it's £40, don't pay £40, but instead get a £40 food delivery to hers for example. Or pay for memberships somewhere she can use, or give gift vouchers ie £160 Waitrose voucher a month, or similar

RattieOfCatan Thu 12-May-16 22:38:40

art I don't think you'd get away with that even, if it's free it had to be entirely free, I'm certain that I've read something about how no money or gifts are allowed to be exchanged.

Don't quote me on this though, it has been a long time since I've looked up anything employment related and this probably would have popped up on the 1000th page!

jannier Fri 13-May-16 17:28:14

You say she looks after 3 already....how old are they a registered child minder would only be able to have 3 under 5 and a further 3 up to 8 years even with risk assessments and insurance .

Do you want someone who teaches your child or just keeps them safe? Today in my home we have been working on balancing skills, we've had sand water paint den making, using tools like tongs and scoops to strengthen fingers, colour sorting and counting, worked on confidence by setting up role play and guiding the dynamics of the game, practiced phonics and writing skills has circle time as well as free play and a trip to the park, and no tv. If you want some education ask about the activities done in an average day.

I'm struggling a bit to see why your keen on unregistered care which your willing to pay a going rate for, is it just knowing somebody? If it is cheaper then I would be asking why this woman isn't willing to go the legal route and earn honest money if she's good why would she choose to earn less than she could? Or is she just a box of toys a tv person? It is very hard demanding work to care for young children and provide education it is very easy to turn on the tv and throw out toys while you know nobody is going to check up on what you are providing or report you. Surely anyone dedicated to children would be willing to lay out money to be legal.

We all know this lady is not looking after 3 unrelated children for free so she is working illegally and by law she should be reported, the parents paying her are also breaking the law. Many try to get round it by claiming to be aunties and granny's and getting the children to refer to them as such. Why would you trust someone who is openly breaking the law to teach your child the importance of being honest and good citizenship? If your child falls permanently scaring their face or is injured in a car crash in her care (or pedestrian accident) how would you feel knowing the only compensation would be your child suing you at 21? We all assume nothing will happen until it does.

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