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Childminder wanting to put baby DD down for naps and let her cry if need be - not happy

(57 Posts)
PutYourSisterDown Tue 05-Jan-16 23:11:19

DD is 10 months old and we have the luxury of three months to gradually settle her with our chosen childminder before I return to work when she's 13 months. She'll go to the childminder two consecutive days a week, and my mum will have her at home on a third.

We went along this morning for an hour. It was mostly good. DD was happy exploring. I'll stick around for a month's worth of visits, then start nipping out for 10, 20, 30 minutes and so on.

The childminder is sweet with DD, a softly spoken and gentle person, lovely calm home, does lots with mindees and lots of outside time in wellies. All good.

But I don't think she gets why DD can't just be plopped in a cot and self-settle; she needs feeding, cuddling, rocking, a car drive, the sling - something to comfort and lull her. Anyway, it was a polite visit and all, and I don't expect to have the same views on everything childcare-related, but - and for me it's quite a big but - she says she will expect to put DD down for naps and would consider it normal and nothing to worry about if she cries before falling asleep. She'd pop in on her, but would essentially be doing a form of CIO I suppose.

I'm not happy about this. I don't see how it's necessary. We've never left DD to cry. I would have thought the default of all childcare providers would be to respond and not leave a child to cry, unless it's the parent's express wish/their normal routine. She will only have one other child to look after, a toddler who is used to going to sleep by himself, so I don't see why she can't at least rub DD's back, or let her nod off on her lap before transferring her to the cot, at least until she's settled. DD usually falls alseep on the boob - for this not to be available and to be offered nothing else comfort-wise would be cruel, I think.

Oh I don't know. Maybe I'm being unreasonable. Although I have an older DC, this is the first time I've used childcare, so I may not have realistic expectations. So I'd be grateful for any thoughts on this.

Apart from this, the arrangement is looking promising - very close by, amazing ratio (one adult to two little ones), otherwise warm and kind woman - so I'm hoping we can make it work ... in which case, I'd also love some general tips for successfully settling a roughly one-year-old with a childminder with minimal upset.

Thanks very much.

Iguessyourestuckwithme Tue 05-Jan-16 23:38:04

Hi I am a nanny.

While I am happy to do as my employers say regarding the care of their children [they are the parents after all!] I am going to say YABU.

Your comment " DD usually falls asleep on the boob - for this not to be available and to be offered nothing else comfort-wise would be cruel, I think " shows why having a crux at sleep times doesn't work. It is not your child minder being cruel but you. You have decided to go with a parenting philosophy that suits you/your child/your family - but it's not in your child's best interests if the child is then placed in a situation where these cruxes aren't available - While I can give a baby/child a cuddle or a teddy bear at nap time I can't breastfeed them to sleep. While it may suit you to cuddle your baby to sleep or sit for 2 hours on the sofa while they sleep, a child minder who has other kids to look after, toys to tidy up, paperwork to complete, a cup of tea to have [I wish!] really can't afford to do this. What if when your daughter is older she says to you the childminder doesn't play with her as she is to busy sitting and cuddling baby 1 to sleep, then she didn't get to paint as the childminder was to busy trying to settle another baby, that when they went on their eagerly awaited trip to the playground/zoo that they couldn't go as they had to keep driving round so that baby c could have a nap.

I understand your sentiment that it is upsetting thinking of your daughter being upset in this situation, but this is something that you need to work on at home in the next 3 months.

I have nannied for babies that I have done cc with as their parents wanted it; I have nannied for babies that have protested about going to sleep, I have had others that went into their cot and didn't make a sound, I have also had a couple that could only sleep if they were cuddled to sleep or walked around the block in the pram. With the ones who needed a crux [pram/cuddle] I managed to have them sleeping in their cot and going to sleep by themselves without cc and it dramatically changed their parents lifes and made for a happier nap time for everyone.

If you are 100% happy with everything else I would work with her to ensure your daughter has different sleep cues than breast feeding. If you don't want to change these then maybe you need to reconsider childcare options.

I hope it works out for your daughter.

Alisvolatpropiis Tue 05-Jan-16 23:43:01

I think you need to adjust your expectations, the childminder will not just be looking after your daughter.

I would assume she means she would let the baby grumble for a few minutes to see if she will settle not leave to her become hysterical.

BackforGood Tue 05-Jan-16 23:45:35

I agree with the others.
Your expectations are not reasonable.
She will want your lo to be happy and will do her best to comfort her (you mention rubbing her back) if she finds that helps, but for all the reasons Iguess has listed for you, it's not realistic to expect what you are after.

I already think the CM is being incredibly patient with you, with your somewhat extended 'settling in' ideas. That really sounds OTT.

Iguessyourestuckwithme Tue 05-Jan-16 23:49:04

Have to agree Backforgood - the settling in sessions do sound quite OTT.

JE1234 Tue 05-Jan-16 23:49:39

As others have said I don't think she is being unreasonable. You have three months to work on DD being able to sleep without other things soothing her. It's not cruel, you can do it gradually and you don't need her to be left crying. It's just finding new ways. I found my youngest could only sleep on me for a while so I moved to putting him down with a hand left on his chest stroking him. He then progressed to being able to fall asleep with me holding his hand and then just seeing me. Eventually he was able to just fall asleep. It was the reality of the situation, I needed to return to work. It took about 2 months to complete.

LentilStew Tue 05-Jan-16 23:53:15

Can you not use this settling in time for you to settle her at the cm's house by just back rubbing etc. then over the next 3mths gradually wean her down to being able to go down without anything. Then by the time you go back to work, she won't need lots of comfort to settle.

AndNowItsSeven Tue 05-Jan-16 23:56:07

You are sticking around for a month then you will leave for 20 or 30 minute intervals? That's not having the " luxury" of a settling in period it's seriously bonkers.

MovingOnUpMovingOnOut Wed 06-Jan-16 00:01:20

A month of settling in is far too much. 3 sessions max.

My dd was the ultimate Velcro baby, but at 10mo she learnt to sleep at nursery with the others and no boob. She was BF until well over 2yo and co-slept from birth until almost 2, but in childcare she found a routine with the other children and loved it.

I think your expectations are unreasonable.

Fuckitfay Wed 06-Jan-16 00:03:50

A month's worth of visits?!! Three times a week? That's cruel, your DD will expect you always to be there after that. Now you have spent an hour there why don't you spend 15 mins there and then leave - for a half day session. Next session spent 5 mins then leave for a full day session. Voila, settling in done, and that's a luxury!
Wrt to the cry it out I agree she needs to settle. Ask CM what her strategies are for hysterical crying? My CM had to do this for my first DD who was always boob settled - she tried walks and cuddles etc but eventually had to cry it out with agreement was never left for more than 5 mins of crying. She was self settling for naps within three days.

53rdAndBird Wed 06-Jan-16 00:06:21

She will want your lo to be happy and will do her best to comfort her (you mention rubbing her back) if she finds that helps, but for all the reasons Iguess has listed for you, it's not realistic to expect what you are after.

That is what the OP is after, though - back-rubbing or some effort to comfort her to sleep, other than just putting her in the cot and expecting her to settle alone from day 1.

OP, have you talked with the CM explicitly about this? If not it's worth doing so and seeing if you can reach an agreement you're both happy with. At my daughter's nursery they sing and pat bottoms/rub backs for children newly settling or having a tough time with naps - is that the kind of thing she'd consider?

PinkFlamingoAteMyLipstick Wed 06-Jan-16 00:06:42

YABU. For all the reasons expressed by those above plus ... my pfb was the same about going to sleep but eventually I discovered she was just plain noisy, grumbling, sometimes wailing going to sleep and I was actually disturbing her with my soothing interventions! I bet your childminder has seen this before and knows what to do ...

FishWithABicycle Wed 06-Jan-16 00:08:06

Allowing a 10-12 month old to grumble through to sleep isn't the same as "cry it out" - some kinds of cry mean "everything is so overwhelming and I am so tired and need to be left alone" and back rubs and cuddles are actually making it take longer to go to sleep. I remember mine only a little older (just enough to be a bit verbal) screaming "no nap no sleep no tired no no no" over and over for a very loud 3-5 minutes before keeling over and snoring and sleeping solidly for 2.5 hours on a daily basis. Barely a few weeks previously when we still thought cuddling stroking and singing were helpful to induce sleep it would take an hour to get him to settle (rather than 5 minutes) and then he'd only be asleep 45 minutes.

You childminder sounds lovely and is probably very experienced and skilled at helping little ones find their way to sleep. It will all be OK.

And I agree with others that amount of extended settling in is ott unless the cm is also a close personal friend who will enjoy you hanging around their house so much for weeks on end.

PenguinsAreAce Wed 06-Jan-16 00:10:01

I disagre totally with lots of others in this thread. I think the very gradual settling in sounds excellent for you. This is exactly what I would have wanted. The carer needs to become like a trusted friend/aunt to your child, and to do this they need to know them. Of course kids survive a more rapid transition, sometimes even without stress/tears depending on personality.

In your shoes, I would be looking for alternative childcare. You and this childminder have fundamentally differing views on an issue that is important to you. It sounds like they will do it anyway, regardless of your instructions/views. I have used nurseries and nannies for my DCs. All have been happy to cuddle, rock or walk (in a buggy) my DCs to sleep, so it is not impossible, even with one person looking after more than one child. One of the factors in selecting a nursery was that it was obvious the carers were used to stroking, soothing and cuddling the children to sleep if that was what was needed.

Plateofcrumbs Wed 06-Jan-16 00:10:58

Three months' worth of 'settling in' - why on earth?!?! Was this at your suggestion or the CMs?

You have got three months in which YOU can make progress on gently training your DD to nap without sleep props. Anyway, children tend to behave differently in childcare - DS napped like a dream for the CM, long before I got him to settle as easily at home. Your DD will be fine.

Iguessyourestuckwithme Wed 06-Jan-16 00:17:55

"she needs feeding, cuddling, rocking, a car drive, the sling - something to comfort and lull her"

I am sure the childminder will offer some sort of comfirt not just throw her in a cot and leave her, she will preempt nap time with quiet time, she'll probably pt the baby in a cot cuddle her over and give hr a teddy and pop in to check on her intermittently etc but in a case where a parent knows that their child needs all this effort to go to sleep yet knows that she will be going back to work I think it's in the childs best interests to help prepare them with sleep cruxxes such as a teddy and a specific piece of music than taking them for a drive and then breast feeding.

For what its worth I put 2 little ones to bed at lunch time. Toddler got a warning about nap time and quiet time then up to bed a bug cuddle a quick recap of the morning, snuggled her up with a big kiss and left her to it. The smaller one [5mo] was given a nappy change and a cosy cuddle then popped in the cot with a kiss, the mobile put on and he grumbled for 5/8 minutes - I looked in at 4 minutes and then went to sleep. FYI the toddler who went to sleep by herself and without a peep used to be the 5 month old who used to shout herself to sleep.

Hawest1 Wed 06-Jan-16 00:27:08

A child minder will follow ur routine to the best of their ability, the nursery my DSs attend asked me their routine & then said 'we may not be able to offer all of that would u be happy with this instead' & as my pair are easy osey I agreed. The only thing they could really offer was being rocked in a buggy to fall asleep, which usually meant being taken out a walk with some of the 'explorers' so it didn't take up too much time that they could spend doing other things, it was harder for ds1 as he was used to being rocked to sleep but as he got to the age of going to this nursery I was already trying self soothing so this made it slightly easier.
U are the parent & it is ur choice how u bring up ur child but u do have to realise that not every person that encounters ur child can treat them the same way, there will always be differences in how things are done & taught. X

LyndaNotLinda Wed 06-Jan-16 00:28:51

You will probably find your DD behaves totally differently with the cm than she does with you. But I don't think what you're asking is realistic or fair on your CM or her other mindee. If you want sole care, you need to get a nanny, not a CM.

NickNacks Wed 06-Jan-16 05:45:37

I love and appreciate my current mindees' parents all the more after reading this. smile

Reiltin Wed 06-Jan-16 07:06:44

You need to find a different childminder, one whose worldview is more in line with yours. Because you'll find that sleep isn't the only difference you have. Eg She may use time outs or the naughty step when you don't. My kid is in nursery and they rocked her, held her, everything. Get out now!!!

Alisvolatpropiis Wed 06-Jan-16 07:15:30

Get out now!!!

Bit dramatic, no? The childminder hasn't revealed she beats children with a ruler confused

maybebabybee Wed 06-Jan-16 07:20:52

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

maybebabybee Wed 06-Jan-16 07:21:15

Whoops, wrong thread!!!

insancerre Wed 06-Jan-16 07:25:31

You would be better spending your time and energy on helping your child self settle than a prolonged settling in period.
I think your baby will find it harder to settle after such a long drawn out settling in.
Would it not be better to at least prepare your baby by getting her to self settle
It is unrealistic to expect to dictate everything to the cm
You are paying for her services, you are not employing her. While it is in the best interests of the child to have common ground, you do have to accept the cm will have her own way of doing things.
If you engage a builder you don't dictate how they should do the actual building
You need to realise the cm will do things her own way. She is the expert whose professional services you are hiring. If you have fundamental differences, then find a different cm.

GloriaHotcakes Wed 06-Jan-16 07:25:53

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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