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Confused Nanny

(23 Posts)
NuttyNanny09 Wed 17-Jun-15 14:14:23

Hi there all! I'm new here so please go easy on me, I just need some advice. I'll start of with my back ground to give you a little insight.
First of all, I've been a nanny for 3 years, I'm self employed and work for 2 families. Fam1 I work for 3 days a week and fam2 I work 2 days. Fam1 claim tax credits as I'm ofsted reg but fam2 are not eligible. Anyway, fam1 who is a single parent is having 2 weeks off work in August so does not need me. As I'm self employed I understand I am not entitled to holiday pay, sick pay etc so do not expect to get paid whilst she is off. I was actually planning on going on holiday for 3 days in sept but now I am thinking of doing it in August as she doesn't need me anyway, I will going be on the days that I normally work for her so it doesn't affect fam 2 who still need me for those 2 days a week so it works out perfect! The only thing that is bothering me is that fam1 is making it sound as if they are still going to claim tax credits for those 2 weeks even though they won't be using me, (this isn't confirmed I just have a niggling feeling from certain things she's said in texts etc). My question is, is she actually aloud to claim of tax credits for those two weeks even though she's not going to be using me? If she doesn't want to give up the money for those 2 weeks does that mean she has to pay me weather I work or not? I would completely understand if I was unable to work so she still claimed the money (which is illegal from what I've heard but could be wrong) but the fact is I am able to work it's just that she doesn't need me so I've decided to take the holiday the same time instead! If she doesn't claim the money then theirs no harm done but if she does I will be a bit peeved off because she's not really entitled to it unless she's using me, plus that tax credits are really my wages. Sorry to go on just would like to know the facts, if she doesn't use me for those 2 weeks can she still claim the money? if she does does that mean she has to pay me? Any advice would be greatly appreciated, many thanks!

Yuleloglatte Wed 17-Jun-15 14:20:30

You will have a contract that specifies whether you are paid for holidays or not. I'm not sure whether your employers finances are anything to do with you otherwise?

FuckYouChrisAndThatHorse Wed 17-Jun-15 14:23:45

I believe tax credits work on a "total paid in the year" basis. So at the end of the year she will have to confirm that she paid less for the time you weren't employed, and they'll reduce future payments to reclaim the amount (she may be more organised and let them know sooner, but over the year it wouldn't work out as a big difference so may not reduce her payments at all either way).

It's not really your business and she should pay you or not pay you according to your contract. Her receiving tax credits has nothing to do with it. That's her issue, not yours.

NuttyNanny09 Wed 17-Jun-15 14:28:09

I wasn't asking about her finicail issues, that's her business. I was asking weather it was legal or not for her to claim tax credits through my registration number if she is not actually using me. She has specified that she won't be paying me for those 2 weeks as she doesn't need me even though my hours are contracted so I was under the impression that my pay would be contracted also, this is actually what we discussed before I took the job so I was a bit surprised she decided not to pay me. Anyway like I said I'm really not interested in her money issues I was just curious as to how she could claim tax credits through my registration number even if she wasn't using me? I was under the impression that parents could not claim if they weren't actually using that person.

FuckYouChrisAndThatHorse Wed 17-Jun-15 14:32:51

If you are contracted to be paid then she should be paying you. It has nothing to do with TC, you have no reason to suspect fraud confused if she lies to TC she will be in trouble, if she doesn't she won't. It's not relevant to whether she should pay you or not. That is a contract issue.

NuttyNanny09 Wed 17-Jun-15 14:35:39

I think you are taking what I'm saying and running with it. I'm not accusing her of fraud and if she does happen to do that then that is her problem. I am just curious as to how things work that's all, I would like a little insight into it. Just because I'm the nanny am I not aloud to know how tax credits work? From what I've been told from everyone I have asked, it is illegal for parents to claim tax credits if they are not actually using that person. Anyway, I'm going to check with her tonight about my contract and see what she saids. Thanks for your help

NuttyNanny09 Wed 17-Jun-15 14:48:01

I am sorry if I have not explained myself properly. I'm really not fussed if she doesn't pay me for those 2 weeks are I'm self employed so expected, I was just a little surprised that she wasn't going to because that's what we discussed before I took the job but I won't be going crazy over it, I will just to cover those 2 weeks. I was honestly not looking into her finicail issues, I really could not care less about that. I was just under the impression that if a parent is not using a nanny/child minder weather that be 2 weeks or whatever they can not claim the money. That's all I was asking...

HSMMaCM Wed 17-Jun-15 15:08:31

I have no idea about tax credits (sorry, I know that's what you're asking about), but you need to draw up a contract saying exactly what you will be charging for. If you're self employed, you should bill them and they pay you. To be able to bill them, you have to specify in advance what charges, or not, there will be when you're not working.

I think some of my clients use tax credits, but I am not involved in that side of their financial affairs at all.

NuttyNanny09 Wed 17-Jun-15 15:21:27

Hi there, thank you that's great advice! We do actually have a contract that I did myself and she seemed happy with everything. She knows how much I charge etc, before I took the job I specifically asked would the hours and pay be contracted and her answer was "I will always pay you this every week" so I was a tad bit confused when she wasn't going to be paying me! to be honest I wouldn't have taken the job if I had known it would be like this because I like to know how much I'll be getting every week and what hours I'll be doing so it's a bit of a slap in the face! x

Callaird Wed 17-Jun-15 15:21:41

It is illegal to claim tax credits for a childcarer that you never used or have stopped using permanently.

But I think they get X amount of credits a year and can use them however so she can give you extra tax credits in the following months and less 'cash'.

Do you have a contract with them? What does it state with regard to holidays and pay?

As an aside - I didn't think it was legal to be self employed if you only had one or two full time, permanent jobs.

NuttyNanny09 Wed 17-Jun-15 15:24:30

I didn't actually put anything in the contract regards to holidays because I thought the "contracted hours and pay part" would sort of speak for itself! And also I thought because she was claiming tax credits she would have to pay me anyway but obviously I was wrong...

NuttyNanny09 Wed 17-Jun-15 15:25:51

I don't think you can be employed if you only have one family but if you have two you can be self employed. That's what it saids on the HMRC website anyway and I've registered as self employed months ago so it must be possible? :/

eeyore12 Wed 17-Jun-15 15:37:07

If the family tell you when to work and you do the same days etc every week and you can't turn round one day and say I am not working today/I am sending someone else to do my job then you are employed and they should be running PAYE for you. If you can say I am not coming/sending someone else then yes you can be self employed. Anyone can reg as self employed but whether you should be or not is a dif matter. If I was you I would give hmrc a call to double check although you will prob get three dif answers if you speak to three dif people there! I know it isn't what you asked but I would be careful being self employed when really you should be employed and getting the benefits of being employed, the families should be careful as well as they could face a fine of up to £3000 I believe if found to not be employing you.

FlorenceMattell Wed 17-Jun-15 15:39:16

You shouldn't be self employed for either family. Unless they are temporary short term jobs.
Unless you can tell them I'm not coming in next week and am sending an other nanny, if they are dictating the days and hours you work they are employing you.
Do you invoice them for work you do?
You are missing out on 5.6 weeks holiday per year. Do they pay you more per hour to cover these weeks??
You would not be entitled to maternity leave or unfair dismissal, redundancy.
You can be employed and have more than one job.
Re Tax credits if she is claiming for weeks you don't work sounds like she thinks she employs you those weeks.

crikeylou Wed 17-Jun-15 15:49:45

When I claimed for my childminder I informed tax credit of what the yearly amount would be, ie so many days when it was for before and after school only (£10 per day), plus how many full days when school was closed (£25 per day) then took off 4 weeks for holidays - I took my annual leave at same time as childminder.

They then divided by 12 and paid that per month. At the end of the year if it was different to what I had said, I told tax credit and it was adjusted. Your employer may be doing the same.

kathryng90 Wed 17-Jun-15 16:16:33

My parents don't pay me for my holidays. I presume when they tell tax credits their child care costs this amount is taken off. If tax credits write to me to confirm I take it off. I believe that unless their claim differs in amount for more than 2 weeks tax credits don't need to know?

minderjinx Wed 17-Jun-15 16:44:19

The fact that you have registered as self employed does not mean it is correct that you are self employed. I would be keen to get written detailed advice from HMRC in your position; in fact I'd be even more keen if I was one of the parents, as HMRC can issue fines for not operating PAYE as well as claiming back underpaid tax and NI.

nannynick Wed 17-Jun-15 21:00:44

WTC5 (pdf) is worth a read. It is a document from HMRC about Working Tax Credit and it's use to paying towards childcare.

As someone else employed, when your client does not require your service, you are not paid. It's different to childminding, as you are not reserving them a childcare place but you are free to go and fill the gap with other work.

In the same way, if you take holiday - you simply inform your clients that you are not taking bookings for that period of time. You may have in your business terms that you will aim to give 4 weeks advance notice, though last minute cancelling of bookings could happen - for example if you are ill, or the car breaks down, or you just don't fancy doing it that day.

Real self employment is occasional work, maybe the same day each week as that fits with clients and your schedule but the hours may vary and importantly there would be no long term commitment on either side. You would take a booking in good faith and you will endeavour to turn up for that but you always reserve the right to cancel, in the same way your terms of business will allow the client to cancel (though it may specify that payment is still due if cancelled a short time before the day in question, as you may find it hard to fill the day with other work).

nannynick Wed 17-Jun-15 21:02:17

else employed - should read Self Employed.
I am tired, been a long day smile

AliceAnneB Wed 17-Jun-15 21:07:54

I think perhaps you've done yourself a disservice not ensuring paid leave is in your contract. Our nanny is ofsted registered and self employed. She only works 1.5 days for us but still gets 6 weeks paid leave. You may consider putting such a clause in your contracts next time. Our nanny is French and the idea that anyone works in August makes her come out with guttural noises of disgust. grin

alicemalice Wed 17-Jun-15 21:09:59

The tax credit issue is between her and HMRC - it's not related to you in any way, apart from giving your ofsted number to show you are an approved chilcarer.

She will have given averages of her childcare costs over a 3 month period or so. That's how her payments are worked out.

She is meant report any changes when they change to a significant degree (eg a certain percentage change). Holidays and not paying you may well have already been factored in.

But really it's nothing to do with you, so I don't entirely understand your concern?

I do think your own employment situation is a concern though and you or your families could get into trouble with HMRC when you clearly have an ongoing job with them.

m0therofdragons Wed 17-Jun-15 21:29:08

Tax credits ask for average weekly childcare costs and regularly ask for receipts to check up. Presumably she worked out what her average payment will be and at the end of the year you confirm actual costs and they adjust it. You don't need to be involved other than to give receipts/invoice.

Blondeshavemorefun Thu 18-Jun-15 09:23:30

tax credits nothing to do with you

and not sure if you should legally be se if working same days for the two familllies, they are chosing the hours/days you work, not you !!

thats one of the main diff of being se and employed

im se, and i chose when i want to work, and if want a day off nothing the family can do to stop me, tho obvi give them notice, or i wouldnt ever get any work

they sound like perm jobs to me so you should be employed by them, meaning ssp/holidays/smp etc

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