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30 hours childcare

(24 Posts)
HSMMaCM Wed 27-May-15 17:32:09

HSMMaCM Wed 27-May-15 17:33:11

Tanith Wed 27-May-15 23:29:20

Thanks, HSMM smile

And still no word about how they intend to implement it... hmm

SocksRock Wed 27-May-15 23:36:05

I used to be chair of a preschool. I cannot imagine how they will double their provision. Therefore less children will be admitted to make sure they get 30 hours. It doesn't affect me personally as my last child will start school in 2017, but honestly - where are the spaces going to come from?

Tanith Thu 28-May-15 07:48:13

I can imagine how they will do it and none of it is good, especially for the children. sad

I suspect they will not yet say how it is to be implemented because they know damn well what the reaction will be!

HSMMaCM Thu 28-May-15 08:59:51

I can feel the raising ratios being brought back and pre-schools and nurseries may be forced to change their ratios, if they are going to continue to offer funded places. For CMs the ratios won't change (and rightly so), but we will be expected to be able to pay our bills on half pay. Our local pre school is only open 3 hours a day, 5 days a week and I'm not convinced they will want to offer/work more hours.

Everyone will throw up their hands in horror and the government will say ... it's ok, children can all go to school at 2 years old and be on 1:30 ratios. The children and the staff working with them will all lose out.

When will children be allowed to be children and when will the government focus the help on those that actually need it, rather than giving it to everyone.

adp73 Fri 29-May-15 22:17:11

It will be great for cm as long as they sort out the level of hourly rates, because it may stop parents automatically going to a Nursery when the child is 2 or 3.

At the end of the day if the hourly rate isn't enough then you don't offer the funding.

I would actually welcome an increase in cm ratios to 4 under 5s it should have happened a long time ago. Both America and Australia have higher rations in Daycare and it works just fine.

Tanith Sat 30-May-15 09:12:39

Adp I wish that were true, but it doesn't stop them going to a nursery.

I've offered the free entitlement since it first began. In all that time, only three children have stayed exclusively with me.

There seems to be this idea that children must go to nursery to prepare them for school. I've even come under pressure not to charge for the hours they are there, although I offer the same education.

Some of the children who go on to nursery don't like it and tell their parents they'd rather be with me. It makes no difference. Nursery is seen as something they must go to and their dislike is even seen as good practise for school reluctance and having to do things they don't like.

I won't be offering the free 30 hours. I can't afford it. I suspect the Government won't be wanting us to - they want these children in school, not with us.

Tanith Sat 30-May-15 09:14:24

I don't know about Australia, but I'd be very wary of holding up America as a good example of childcare provision!

HSMMaCM Sat 30-May-15 10:46:27

Adp I agree in an ideal world, but they won't sort out the rate. The rate is too low for me now, but I don't give notice to young vulnerable children for the sake of my profits. If the 30 hours comes in with no change in rate, then I will have to give notice for the sake of my mortgage payments. How does the government think that is best for the children?

Tanith Mon 01-Jun-15 08:06:54

I see from this morning's news that they propose to bring this in from September next year. There is to be a review of the funding - no doubt they will declare it to be adequate again.

Anyone else noticed that they've stopped referring to quality childcare?
The more I hear, the less I like sad

I refuse to run a poor quality setting just so the Government can save money. Children deserve better than that. I won't be offering the free 30 hours and I'm seriously thinking of withdrawing from the whole scheme.

What other sector would willingly take on extra work just so they could have and accept a paycut for doing it?!

HSMMaCM Mon 01-Jun-15 13:57:01

Apparently they were discussing it on Jeremy Vyne today, so I'm going to listen to that broadcast later. DH and I have been discussing how/if we can make it work, but 15hrs was hard enough. We certainly can't manage the 30 hours without a drastic change in funded rates.

adp73 Mon 01-Jun-15 17:15:50

It is only going to be trailed in a few areas next Sept (2016) not be brought in for everyone until Sept 2017

HSMMaCM Mon 01-Jun-15 17:40:18

Yes adp. I'm not making any rash decisions until it happens, but best to be prepared.

AnyRailway Mon 01-Jun-15 23:40:43

This isn't about "quality" childcare, it's about working parents.

The more I hear, the less I like...

Yes, they will probobly increase ratios. I can't see any other way of making this work. We will have classes of 30 three year olds... sad

I'm so glad I had already decided just to do after school and holidays. I don't want to be implementing the EYFS on this basis and this ridiculously small amount of funding. Life is too short and children deserve better. I don't care if I can't afford to do this (I am in the lucky position of being on income support and carers allowance, so able to decide how best to build my business before the serious cuts come in a few months/years time).

Don't get me wrong, the new EYFS is not anti-children in principle, I personally think that it is a thing of beauty, wonderfully play based and on every page it says, "this should not be used as a checklist". However, to this government (which is not the one which commisioned it), adhering to the EYFS - i.e good for children and play-based- seems less important than getting parents/mothers into work and increasing GDP.

I suspect that the government want all children in school, rather than with childminders. As I've said, I'm on income support, so entitled to the current 15 hours for my 2 year old at the local school. He loves it, and the staff are very play-based and supportive. However, this local school is excellent (despite/because we are in a deprived area). I am under no illusions about all provision for young children being this good

I could get quite depressed about this...

ButtonMoon88 Fri 05-Jun-15 13:50:09

I won't be offering the 30 free hours, I don't offer 15 now and would not consider it as it would mean losing about £2p/hour.

As it stands at the moment I have enough income from the 18month&2yr olds who do about 34 hours a week with me. If I had older children and lived somewhere else, I would be worried how i would make ends meet. Without getting on my soap box too much, this scheme underlines the flaws in the Tory government, who simply cannot see past the huge wad of cash in their pockets. Labour weren't the best, but they did a lot for childcare and conservatives are slowly destroying it, that and the NHS. rant over sorry!

nannynick Fri 05-Jun-15 14:26:01

Will affect nannies as well, lots more before/after pre-school care.
More people out of work, more people doing short hours. How can this be good for our Nation?

Tanith Tue 09-Jun-15 09:33:34

I was talking to someone from my LA at the weekend. She pointed out that the 15 free hours is no longer "education"; it is the free entitlement, i.e. childcare.

Along with "play"and "quality", "education" seems to have been quietly dropped sad

sassylassie Wed 16-Nov-16 13:56:32

Reviving an old thread here, but I can't find any updates at all on the 30 hours 'free childcare' which is now supposed to be implemented in September 2017. Anyone know any more? I called our local preschool where DS1 (now in Reception) went last year, because I'm hoping DS2 will go next year, and they said the are still awaiting instruction from the local council and I should "call back in January". Personally, I don't want 30 hours of free childcare, as I work part time, and I value this precious time with my child. And of course it will reduce the number of places, so he may even not get a place. I wondered if a part time place might be an option but they can't tell me anything at all.

badgerhead Wed 16-Nov-16 17:20:33

Sassylassie as providers we are still waiting for some of the information to be passed on to us, The main one being how much we are going to be paid for offering this care. What you need to be aware of is that the 30 hours is for 38 weeks of the year or 1140 hours in total over the year, so if a child was to attend a nursery all year they would get between 21 & 24 hours per week. The first 15 hours are still the current 'free' education, the 2nd 15 hours are free for those parents where both of them work (or a single parent) for more than 16 hours per week & earn at least £115 per week, up to £100k per year, per parent!
There is a lot of concern from providers that we will not be paid at a rate that will enable us to break even, let alone cover all our costs.
The announced rate earlier this year was an average of £4.86 per hour which is before the LA's take off their % for administration, although they are not supposed to take more than 5%.
I live in West Sussex and our rate I believe is going to be around £4.60 per hour which leaves me as a childminder with a shortfall of around 40 to 60p per hour. Yes it is better than our current rate of £3.77 per hour, but with the increased hours the proposed rate is not sustainable for providers, especially when you factor in for nurseries the large increase in business rates they are incurring from April 2017 plus the compulsory pension contributions.
As it is being promoted as Free Childcare we are not allowed to charge a top up fee to cover the extra costs, although we can charge for additional services. Providers would much rather it being a subsidised childcare, which would then enable us to charge a top up to make it sustainable for us.
Until the payment rates are confirmed by the government/LA's providers are unlikely to commit to providing the Free 30 Hours, either as a whole or part. Also some settings, especially pre-schools rent their premises in community halls and may not have the ability to increase their hours.

sassylassie Wed 16-Nov-16 17:33:07

Thanks badgerhead. As a parent, I think it's really unfair on childcare providers like yourself, who are already stretched financially. The funding strikes me as ridiculously low considering everything that is expected of you! Also, I think it's should be means tested in the same way as 2-year old care is. I think there is no need for 30 hours of care for everyone (appreciate this is only term time) and the current 15 hours is fine. But that is obviously for me, as I work part time and would like to spend the rest of my time with my pre-schooler while I can, before he has to go to school. My family meets the criteria, and I'm grateful for the help, but we are not completely cash strapped, as DH and I both have professional jobs (albeit mine is only 0.6 FTE). I think it's more important to offer this help to low-income families, and ensure childcare providers can make a living!

sassylassie Wed 16-Nov-16 17:34:00

Sorry didn't mean to say you personally are financially stretched! Just that the funding for childcare providers is so pitiful!

badgerhead Thu 17-Nov-16 06:31:38

Thank you Sassylassie for your support for childcare providers. There is/has been a debate on the childcare funding on the House of Commons facebook page which I have contributed to. There are a lot of parents on their who are not so understanding and think of it being their 'right' to free childcare. A lot of the time we providers are feeling that we are banging our heads against the proverbial brick wall, trying to get support and understanding from both parents and the government.

lovelynannytobe Thu 17-Nov-16 12:55:02

It's a shame but if the government does not raise the rate closer to hourly rate providers currently charge or allow to charge parents top ups a lot of providers will not be joining the scheme. It's especially hard for providers in London and around where rent and other running costs are very high.

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