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15 hours early years funding

(46 Posts)
junkfoodaddict Mon 03-Nov-14 16:37:20

DS goes to a childminder 5 days a week from 7:45am until 6pm at a cost of £35 a day (£3.50 an hour approximately but charged at daily, not hourly rate).
He turns 3 in December so is entitled to 15 hours of early years educational funding from January 2015 for 38 weeks in an academic year. How much reduction should I expect if I was to use 3 hours a day of early years funding? Should it be £3.50 x 3 a day at a reduction of £10.50 a day or will the childminder reduce the £35 cost by much less by using a 'special formula'?
She isn't the easiest, smartest people to handle money (we have had disagreements before regarding payments and once her telling me kiddivouchers being stopped almost a year ago - all of which I proved her to be wrong) so am not hopeful she would give me the right information or any information without badgering and badgering her.
Any advice much appreciated!!

LucyLastik Mon 03-Nov-14 16:39:13

You can only use the entitlement with a CM if they are accredited, I think

Thurlow Mon 03-Nov-14 16:41:08

You need to check whether she will take the vouchers first. Not many childminders do, as it depends on whether the money they are getting from the EYF is the same as they would be getting from the parent. Around us, the funding is only paid to certain registered providers, mainly private nurseries and pre-school type nurseries.

If she can take the funding, I would assume she needs to work out what her actual hourly rate turns out to be, and then deduct 15 hours of that?

hollie84 Mon 03-Nov-14 16:45:41

She probably doesn't provide early years education, but if she is in the scheme then legally she has to provide 15 hours free rather than just deduct the funding from your bill.

In many places the funding is less that what a CM charges per hour so a CM would lose money by offering the free hours.

kathryng90 Mon 03-Nov-14 17:03:55

Childminders must have a good or above rating to offer early education. I charge £3.00 an hour so knock off the bill £45 per child per week covering 15 hours. Or £33 a week for 11 hours stretched over the year.

yackity Mon 03-Nov-14 19:02:51

Not all CMs participate, and those that do usually get less per hour in funding than they charge.

You need to check first.

If she doesn't participate you could always use those hours at a nursery, and the CM could take them there and pick them up. It probably wouldn't save you money, as the CM has absolutely no obligation to not charge for those hours because they have no way of filling those hours.

I did it with DS1 and it was really beneficial.

HSMMaCM Mon 03-Nov-14 21:05:43

You have to ask her

A) does she do funded hours
B) what does she charge for the rest of the day

adsy Tue 04-Nov-14 13:04:13

She probably doesn't provide early years education
All CM's provide early years education. It is a condition of the registration to follow the EYFS which is the early years "curriculum" and all CM's are rigorously inspected on this regularly.
Can I ask why you think she wouldn't?
Also, no you don't need to be accredited, just good or above.
I offer the 15 hours as 2 free days a week. The hourly rate is a bit more than I charge so as long as I get the equivalent of 2 days I would normally charge then I just knock 2 days off the bill.
parents who only use me 2 or 3 days a week love it!

hollie84 Tue 04-Nov-14 13:06:01

Maybe I should have clarified that she probably doesn't provide the funded hours of early years education. I assumed it would be obvious from the subject of the thread.

adsy Tue 04-Nov-14 13:06:28

. I charge £3.00 an hour so knock off the bill £45 per child per week covering 15 hours. Or £33 a week for 11 hours stretched over the year.
Would it not make more sense to knock off 15 x the hourly rate you get from the council rather than what you charge?

HSMMaCM Tue 04-Nov-14 13:43:43

You're not allowed to deduct the government payment from the bill. You have to offer 15 hours free.

YonicScrewdriver Tue 04-Nov-14 13:49:28

Adsy, funding is only for term time so some providers average over the year by using 11h not 15 per week.

adsy Tue 04-Nov-14 13:56:52

You're not allowed to deduct the government payment from the bill. You have to offer 15 hours free.
If they want more than 15 hours then Isn't taking 15 hours off the same thing as offering it for free?confused
yonic she says she charges £3 so takes off £45 per week in term time or £33 stretched so unless the council coincidentally pay her £3 per hour then she is knocking off what she charges, not what she gets from the council

HSMMaCM Tue 04-Nov-14 14:14:34

Taking 15 hours of your own rate is the same as giving it free. Taking 15 hours of the government rate off is not.

LuckyLopez Tue 04-Nov-14 14:18:58

Yes agree with hsmmacm

For instance I charge £5ph. The gov pay me £3,82. I have to give 15 hrs free at source to parent so lose £75pw and not just knock off what the gov pays me which is £57.30.

It's called changing top up fees and it's not allowed. It's also the reason many CMs don't offer the finding because it actually costs is to offer it.

adsy Tue 04-Nov-14 14:27:21

Aaah, yes. But... the amount the government gives me is more than I charge per hour so I can take the 15 hours off and the parent doesn't pay at all if they only use those 15 hours. ( and I end up with slightly more than I would have got from the parent. hence why if they need 8 hours a day for 2 days I am happy to do it purely from the funded money and give the half hour extra for free.) I don't charge any "top up" .

LuckyLopez Tue 04-Nov-14 14:34:04

I get more for the 2yr olds £5.50 so yes it can work either way.

busyDays Tue 04-Nov-14 14:35:56

There is no set formula to say how much your bill comes down. The only rule is that the 15 hours have to be free. Your childminder can charge whatever she likes for any additional hours. So for example, I charge £5 hour, but in my area the funding will only pay £4.15 per hour. So lets say I have a child attending 10 hours a day and I'm charging £50 pounds. The child then becomes eligible for the funding so I rewrite the contract stating that the first 3 hours each day are free and the next 7 hours are (£50 - 3*£4.15)/7 = £5.36/hour. So effectively I am making up the money lost for the free hours by charging more for the additional hours, so that my daily income remains the same. This is what I have been advised to do by the local early years department and it seems to be perfectly legal. So unfortunately there is no straight answer and you really need to speak to your childminder to ask how she does it.

junkfoodaddict Tue 04-Nov-14 16:44:50

Busydays what authority are you from? Your information is very positive in terms of how much the authority gives per hour.
In answers to things people have said , kiddivouchers STILL exist as they come out of my salary monthly and I get a statement monthly to say my childminder has been paid. Kiddivouchers isn't the issue here. I just want to know how much in a reduction I get daily if I take 3 hours free early years education which she DOES provide and has done for a long time. She is a childminder with 25 years experience and consistently rated 'good'.

LuckyLopez Tue 04-Nov-14 16:57:23

I can't see where anyone has even mentioned kiddivouchers??!

hollie84 Tue 04-Nov-14 17:04:47

You get 15 hours reduction, 38 weeks a year.

YonicScrewdriver Tue 04-Nov-14 17:16:30

However, if she currently provides meals, outings etc as part of the £35 per day, she may separate these out and charge you the full amount.

HSMMaCM Tue 04-Nov-14 17:24:07

Only your cm can tell you. There is no set formula. Like busydays, the local authority rate is far less than my rate (approx half!), so I charge more per hour for part days. If someone just wanted 15 hours it would be free and I'd be out of pocket.

Thurlow Tue 04-Nov-14 17:27:23

People were only questioning it because Kiddivouchers are just one form of childcare voucher that you can get through your employer, whereas the 15 hours EYFS funding is a different thing and many childminder's aren't registered to take it because it is a big difference in cost for them.

starlight1234 Tue 04-Nov-14 22:49:13

the 15 hours free funding are clearly marked on my invoices as that is a requirement.
The only additional fees you can charge are for meals.

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