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Today a mindee smashed a picture frame on a large picture on the wall

(25 Posts)
Doonhamer Wed 26-Mar-14 13:14:51

Which then smashed into smithereens all over the carpet right next to where the 5 year old mindees were playing

He did it by throwing a large (and I mean large) plastic box filled with toy cars and trains etc, across the room in a temper. he is 10

I am still a bit lost for words by the whole incident

TwelveLeggedWalk Wed 26-Mar-14 13:19:30

Crikey, I thought you were going to say he was 3.

nannynick Wed 26-Mar-14 13:22:09

Look at why he did it. Did he know what would happen.
Was it in temper, what things does he feel would have been more appropriate.
Logical consequence - has he helped clear up?

Doonhamer Wed 26-Mar-14 13:28:51

He did because I had put away (as in removed from dining table onto shelves instead) a cardboard box model he was making the afternoon before. I moved it ontot eh shelves so we could eat our dinner
he said I had no right to move it, and picked up the box of cars and threw them. It is a big box, i struggle with it. He then took himself of intot eh hall and sat on teh stairs facing the wall, refusing point blank to speak to me.

I closed the door and asked him why he did it and he shrugged. I said "please can you answer me" and he said "I don't know why I did it". I said perhaps he did it becasue he was angry but that throwing things wasn't very helpful, and that he could have really hurt another mindee, either by hitting them with the box or by smashed glass, he just shrugged and said he didn't care. I then said it was my stuff he was throwing aorund and breaking and he needed to show some respect for my things when he wa sin my house.

Beastofburden Wed 26-Mar-14 13:30:47

Well I would ring his mum, get him picked up, and ban him for the week.

That way he gets to suffer some consequences but you don't have to administer them. And yes, she does have to pay. Broken glass is not on.

NatashaBee Wed 26-Mar-14 13:32:08

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Wurstwitch Wed 26-Mar-14 13:34:42

Does he have any other autistic traits? (Other than panic when things are not as expected/ change to routine/ expectations?)

Will your house insurance cover the repair if the parents do not have the money?

But yes. Collect child now. Ban for week. Ask parents to pay.
Suggest they reconsider whether their 10yo's behaviour is conducive to a setting in a private home, and whether he would be better off in an after-school club with his peers. He's going to secondary school on September, presumably?

Doonhamer Wed 26-Mar-14 13:35:04

I didn't ring the mum when it happened - this morning before school the local one is not closed due to strike action.
I did tell his teacher as I thought he might be in a huffy mood all day.

DH was there when it happened he said to have a chat with the mum today when she picks up, this is totally unacceptable behaviour. The child had apologised for yesterdays behaviour when he came in this morning then within 5 minutes he did this
Yesterday he was "encouraging" the 2 older mindees to wind up his sibling (whi is undergoing assessment for SN) and he knew that his sibling would retaliate with aggression as usual. Then they would all come running saying " x did this, x did that" when all the time it was them.

Doonhamer Wed 26-Mar-14 13:35:52

wurstwitch - no he has another year at primary, just turned 10 a couple of months ago

Octopusinabunchofdaffodils Wed 26-Mar-14 13:40:27

I'd expect her to pay, I wouldn't ban him for the week simply because it is a punishment for his parents and not him. I agree it'd send an important message to him but the inconvenience for his parents would be large if they have to get to work. Can he be made to miss out on something you were going to do as a result?

apotomak Wed 26-Mar-14 13:45:23

You can only look after over 8s if their presence doesn't interfere with the way you look after the younger ones. If you cannot control his behaviour so that the younger ones are not in danger you must give notice. I actually have it in my contract that I can terminate immediately if they are over 8 and their behaviour becomes unmanageable and dangerous.

Doonhamer Wed 26-Mar-14 13:51:39

I am finishing in July as we are moving. So its not going tob e much longer. This isn't the first time he has had a tantrum (for want of a better word) over silly things. Last time it was over a roll,or lack of, sellotape. On that occasion he slid his arm across the table, scooping everything on it, including cups and plates, ontot eh floor. That was about 10 months ago maybe

Someone mentioned autisitc traits - i don't see any TBH. I know he hates being told off and does go into massive huffs if he does, as he has done with me on several occasions and does with his mum too. he is a very bossy child and has to be right all the time and will contradict me if he thinks he is right and I'm not. He repeatedly tells his sibling and the younger mindees that they are stupid or an idiot (especially the sibling) and if he doesn't win any game we play he says he's bored and wants to stop.

minderjinx Wed 26-Mar-14 14:05:32

You need to write it up as an incident and get a parent to sign. I think I would exclude him and ask the parent to use the time out to reinforce what is acceptable behaviour. I would be wanting to hear what punishment they had decided upon, payment for the damage caused, and a sincere apology. Whatever you decide, I think you need to do something significant and proportionate to show that you are effectively safeguarding the little ones. You are the one whose livelihood is on the line if he were to harm one of them, to say nothing of the guilt you would feel.

Wurstwitch Wed 26-Mar-14 14:08:19

I think I would tell the parents you are unable to offer him a place any longer.

His behaviour is not safe for your younger mindees and you have a safeguarding responsibility to both them and him. If, god, forbid, next time he injures a younger child, you will feel terrible.

And, to be honest, if I used you as a child minder for my three yo, and discovered you also had a giant 10 yo that thought nothing of throwing stuff, taunting younger children, and sweeping everything from the table to the floor, I would be removing my three yo. Not just because I was concerned about his physical safety, but because of the behaviors they were potentially learning and copying.

And if my five yo came home and said x threw a box and there was glass EVERYWHERE! I would have expected some sort of carefully worded incident report so that I didn't panic... ;-)

It does sound as though he has some issues, whatever the cause. Tough one, but I think you owe it to the other kids (and their parents) to ensure their safety.

Beastofburden Wed 26-Mar-14 14:15:33

YY to the safeguarding issues but I am sure you know all about that side of things.

This is an opportunity to clamp down on his behaviour more generally. Today was so far out of order that you can raise the other, more borderline stuff with his mother too.

Sorry, but in your shoes I would exclude for the rest of the week and only have him back subject to a behaviour "contract" that he has to sign.

Buckteethjeff Wed 26-Mar-14 14:27:11

I too would remove my smaller child if you had an erratic dangerous child. If a child is being dangerous or difficult , they are removed from my classes ASAP. Other children's safety always comes first.

I think his behaviour is escalating. How would you feel if he accidentally harmed another child in one of his 'huffs' .

How would you explain it to the child parent ?

It really isn't worth the after school charge fee.

Wurstwitch Wed 26-Mar-14 14:41:34

I might also mention to the parents how he is behaving with his younger sn sibling. Just in passing - the parents are probably well aware, but they might need an outside nudge to look for support in how to deal with it.

Do you think that he is copying any behaviors from his sibling to get attention? Or acting up to get attention because it is all focused on his little bro at the mo?

Viviennemary Wed 26-Mar-14 14:44:43

It would have worried me that the toys could have hit one of the smaller children and caused an injury. I wouldn't be happy at my children being minded in a house where this kind of thing was happening.

Octopusinabunchofdaffodils Wed 26-Mar-14 17:49:50

I'd go with the terminating the contract immediately rather than a suspension for a few days, I think it is a fairer way really as it is less inconvenience for the parents and, most importantly protects the other children.

Mimishimi Wed 26-Mar-14 20:53:02

Ban for a week? I'd give his mum notice immediately so that she can find new childcare.

Karoleann Wed 26-Mar-14 21:01:07

I'd be furious at my 7 year old for doing that. A 10 year old (year5?) should have enough pocket money to pay for the damage and I would guest that to the patents or discuss it with the child.

Did he apologise or understand the consequences of his actions?

Karoleann Wed 26-Mar-14 21:01:59

Sorry have new I pad should have said suggest to the parents

SuburbanSpaceperson Mon 31-Mar-14 13:38:35

What did you decide to do Doonhamer?

Who was it that suggested that he might have autism? Was it one of his parents? My nearly 10 yr old DS has ASD and has very similar behaviours to what you describe, temper outbursts, needing to always win, teasing others inappropriately, doesn't like his things to be moved. He is also very extrovert and articulate so doesn't fit with what most people think of as an autistic type. Because of his impulsiveness and inability to control his temper DS wouldn't be suited to a child care environment that has small children, and I would be nervous if I had a small child who was in childcare with a child like DS.

ZuleikaD Tue 01-Apr-14 11:40:09

I also would give notice - too much risk for the smaller ones.

ChildrenAtHeart Tue 01-Apr-14 13:31:34

I think what you have described fit a number of autistic traits, probably high functioning/Aspergers rather than what many people traditionally associated with autism. My 14yo was diagnosed with Aspergers a year ago and he displays many similar traits. No two autistic children are alike or necessarily fit the classic descriptors so sometimes its not picked up until children are older, particularly aspergers, as the behaviours become more obvious, especially as puberty hormones kick in. You said the sibling was being assessed for additional needs - was this for anything along the lines of asd, add, adhd as these things often run in families?.

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