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Holiday pay for CM when on long-term sick?

(40 Posts)
NumptyNu Wed 18-Dec-13 21:41:29

Should CMs expect to receive 'holiday pay' for Xmas if they are currently 'out of action', and have been so for several months, and may be so for another couple of months?

Cindy34 Wed 18-Dec-13 21:53:50

I would not have thought so, as they are not currently providing a service. However it would depend on the individual contract between CM and Parents.

HSMMaCM Wed 18-Dec-13 21:54:47

There is no general rule for CMs as we are self employed and set our own terms. Mine are - if I'm not available my clients do not pay. Others are different.

Why do you ask?

NumptyNu Thu 19-Dec-13 22:12:17

Hi there, I ask because we find ourselves being asked for the payment, despite being in a long (at least six months) of the CM's absence. Under normal circumstances, we've been happy to pay for a week or two of leave at Xmas, but that should only apply when the person is actually working, surely?

Upcycled Thu 19-Dec-13 22:13:50

This must be the cheekiest CM in the whole wide world.

DeepThought Thu 19-Dec-13 22:14:12

oh dear, tricky one

what does your contract say?

birdybear Thu 19-Dec-13 22:15:05

What? When did you last pay and when did she last work?

YoureBeingASillyBilly Thu 19-Dec-13 22:16:15

Six months of her being off? shock what are you doing for childcare? I would have given notice long before now an no i wouldnt pay for holidays whilst she is on sick as the normal service is not currently available.

QuintessentialShadows Thu 19-Dec-13 22:18:24

Have you been paying for cm services for 6 months without her working?

mercibucket Thu 19-Dec-13 22:22:00

surely your cm is not actually your cm if she has not been working for 6 months
I wouldn't pay!

Shente Thu 19-Dec-13 22:23:46

Not a chance! Why are you still her clients? Surely you must have had to find alternative care by now?

NumptyNu Thu 19-Dec-13 22:27:27

She has been with us a long time and has needed some time off (rare previously) for some treatment. She will be off for about 6 mths in total, but hopes to return, so we have a temporary arrangement I'm place for the time being.

I'm just wondering what you would find fair or unfair under these circumstances. It feels a bit cheeky on their part, if I'm honest, but looking for a sense check!

NumptyNu Thu 19-Dec-13 22:29:54

The contract discusses holidays but doesn't cover what happens in a long-term leave situation.

FunkyBoldRibena Thu 19-Dec-13 22:31:09

Why not actually tell us what's in your contract? Is she paye or self employed? As it's that that will determine whether she is entitled or not.

YoureBeingASillyBilly Thu 19-Dec-13 22:31:33

If you are very fond of er and intend to use her service agakn then i would probably give her a nice christmas present but i wouldnt be giving money as presumably you have to do this for your current chidlcare provider? She is nuts to expect it, never mind ask!

Shente Thu 19-Dec-13 22:33:10

Is this actually a nanny then rather than a cm? It sounds like you employ her and wrote the contract rather than the other way round. Perhaps worth getting some legal advice if that is the case as you may have some duty of care towards her if she is an employee.

ReallyTired Thu 19-Dec-13 22:34:16

No I don't think you should give her holiday pay. She hasn't worked for you for six months. Childminders are self employed and can't demand money for no work. Even the most generous public sector employer would not give any pay after 6 months.

I think you should refuse to pay her any xmas money and terminate. She can take you to the small claims court, but she would be just laughed at. If she refused to return a deposit to you then I am sure that the small claims court would be sympathetic to you.

NumptyNu Thu 19-Dec-13 22:36:08

She is self employed. The contract is basic. And you're right, I don't want to upset her, as she has been a reliable worker, but something is just bugging me about this.

shoom Thu 19-Dec-13 22:37:06

Give notice and reassess things if and when she returns to childminding.

Pay the holidays only if contractually obliged to do so. Ditto for her sickness absence. She's not an employee, so are you sure you need to pay her while she's not offering you her childminding services?

What are her other clients doing? Or have they all given notice already?

Tbh, if you're willing to pay approx 6 months fee for a service you're not getting, I'm not surprised she's asking for holiday pay too.

Surely the holiday pay is a red herring?

Blondeshavemorefun Thu 19-Dec-13 22:40:32

Have you been paying her for the last 6mths/since she has been off

And no to holiday pay / but maybe a nice pressie

Self employed people don't normally get paid if they don't work ie ill or holiday / but obv depends what you both agree to via a contract

DeepThought Thu 19-Dec-13 22:48:37

does she normally work from her own home or does the care take place at your house?

NumptyNu Fri 20-Dec-13 08:09:20

At our house, but only on the day or two with our kids. On other three days she has kids at hers.

NumptyNu Fri 20-Dec-13 08:10:57

No we haven't been paying while she has been off. Just a bit of holiday pay that had accrued.

NumptyNu Fri 20-Dec-13 08:11:58

Apologies, I don't want to give too many details away for ID purposes.

DeepThought Fri 20-Dec-13 08:23:01

No, no, we understand

For purposes of clarity the person is not a childminder if the care takes place at your home

Truly self employed nannies are incredibly rare so I really think you need to terminate thecontract.

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