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How much to pay AP extra for school hols?(33 Posts)
Just planning ahead and trying to budget. Assuming AP is happy to do additional hours in school hols of course.
If you pay your AP £80 per week for 4 hours a day during term time, how much would you expect to pay him/her in addition to that during school holidays, if that entailed an extra 6 hours a day? Is £100 reasonable? Not enough?
Not looking for 'but that's less than minimum wage' points as this is an AP who gets bed and board on top of pay.
Kids are 9 and 11 so no concerns about leaving them with an AP all day.
MendiI have had aupairs for similar aged children to you - I operate a swings and roundabouts approach. I never ask au pairs to do full weeks of school holidays but I take a few days off and they have a fews days of care. I pay for the entertainment (cinema; swimming etc) children generally like to sleep in on the hols so its lazy mornings and TV for this age group (not hard work at all) and then out to do something in the afternoon. On the days I take off I take the kids out and aupair has the option of coming too - day to beach etc. I have been very accommodating around friends and family visiting (think this one has had 5-6 visits from overseas friends to stay with us.) Now she wants to earn some hard cash before returning home, I have full summer cover so I agreed she could keep the room with en suite and get a job saving up money - she will pay me a very small contribution to bills and buy her own food - shes more than happy. The package doesnt always have to be about money, its about finding out what the other person wants from the experience and then seeing if you can provide that, then no one feels exploited.
"I'm really surprised you consider it exploitation."
I don't, that's not what I said.
I said that £175-£225 is probably a fair range and £180 is within that.
I also said that 20 hours for £80 plus R&B is generous compared to the going rate of 25 hours for £70 - so taking the whole package over the year, I think that is quite reasonable.
My comments about exploitation were to another poster; reading back I see that although I did quote the other poster to put my comment in context, I did mix this in a message directed to you. Sorry for the confusion.
Thanks MrA for explaining on the other thread how you calculated the figures. I have to say, although I speak as someone who's not had an AP yet and so am prepared to be wrong, I think paying an AP £180 a week for 50 hours for only about 8 weeks of the year (£80 a week for 20 hours the rest of the time), on top of accommodation, no bills and all food provided, is more than generous. That is all disposable income for the AP. I have less disposable income than that myself. I'm really surprised you consider it exploitation.
So if you think £175-£225 for 50 hours in Surrey is too much, what would you suggest, and what is the basis for that suggestion?
Mr A, you have an agenda and I am not here to debate with you about exploitation. If you dont like market forces (move to N. Korea), feel free to pay above market for your aupairs, but it is IMO bad advice to come on this board and confuse people who are genuinely looking for guidance to do that.
If you say aupairs are being exploited at the current market rate, why do mine have so many online packages being delivered to my house, go out clubbing with other aupairs and travelling with lots of free time. Clearly living on the breadline and being forced to scrub the floors You are welcome to tell them to go back home.
"National Minimum Wage does not apply to live in aupairs."
No it doesn't, but it can be a guide to a fair rate of pay for additional hours.
You see if an au pair's package is £75 cash plus £100 worth of room and board for 25 hours a week that is £7 an hour (£175/25) NOT £3 (£75/25). There is no logic or fairness in expecting them to work an additional 25 hours for only £3 an hour.
"it is a free market"
No it isn't, people have to earn money to live: this removes one essential condition of a free market. That is why workers are "willing" to be exploited, and why they need protection both in law and by responsible attitudes of employers.
Yes mendi, I am saying that £80pw for 20 hours is generous too.
I am saying that £120pw for 20 hours would be about right IF THERE WERE NO ROOM AND BOARD.
"What is fair is in the eyes of the aupair and what the market rate is."
This is not true. If you only take into account the market rate and what an au pair is willing to work for (which is the same thing), you end up with exploitation.
Many people exploit their au pairs by paying them a pittance to work extended hours: just because the au pairs are willing to do it and many other people do it does NOT make it OK.
National Minimum Wage does not apply to live in aupairs.
What is fair is in the eyes of the aupair and what the market rate is.
Personally, Mr A's figures are IMO inflated and not reflective of the market standard for aupair holiday top up pay. There is no way I would start with that. Your aupair is within her rights to reject your doubling of her pay - it is a free market. She might think she can get more per hour but how many per hour jobs (cleaning, mothers help) actually allow her to work an extra 6 hours of not particularly stressful work a day back-to-back without travelling and no adjustment to employers' conditions? She could try waitressing or babysitting but can she find work within those hours and for that block of time per day?
...the other posters on this thread say £80 per week for 20 hours is generous.
Thanks MrA. I'll look at the tax and NI bit later but am a bit confused by your last paragraph. You seem to be saying that I should pay £120 a week for 20 hours but that is way over the going rate discussed on every AP thread on MN. The going rate seems to be £75-£100 for 25 hours. Where do you get £120 for 20 hours from?
"Not looking for 'but that's less than minimum wage' points as this is an AP who gets bed and board on top of pay."
But they don't get any more bed and board when they work more hours.
"I pay mine double as her hours double"
"do you approach it by 'annualising' what is paid to the AP and then work out if over the year (or 6 months) you're paying over £109 per week?"
No, if you pay weekly you must operate PAYE if you pay £109 or more in ANY week. You only pay NI on earnings over £148 in any week though.
You can however actually pay the AP a fixed amount based on an average over the year to minimise the amount of NI paid. This is basically how teachers are paid. We did this once but found that it did not work well from a motivational point of view.
If you work out a fair rate of pay by taking NMW (say £6ph) for 20 hours, so £120pw you are only putting a value of £40pw on room and board. In (most of) Surrey £100-£150pw room and board is more like it. £6ph for 50 hours is £300pw, so a fair wage is around £175-£225.
I agree that £80 for 20 hours per week is generous, but not outrageously so.
Doubling her pay per day sounds like a sensible way to go. None of my aupairs have baulked at working nanny hours over the school hols and I always check in advance (even before hiring) that they are fine with providing school holiday cover for, in my case, an extra £20 per day.
For children your dcs' age, that is not intense. They would usually just go to other aupair's/nanny's houses or the park and their charges play. I also arrange playdates and the occasional activity. I provide spending money on top for treats and activities.
Thanks Outraged. We're actually moving to Surrey this summer so I'm not sure exactly what will be available by way of holiday clubs, though with the ages of my DCs I don't know how keen they'd be for holiday clubs. Well I'm thinking of my older one really. All he wants to do is play PS3 and wait for his voice to break. But I expect there will be some holiday stuff I can try to encourage them towards, cost permitting.
Just realised you said you're in Surrey, not sure if they go out that far, but worth a google.
If you're in London have a look at 'Fit for Sport' they're very reasonably priced, it's less than £30 for a standard day (9:30am-4:30pm I think) and less than £40 for an extended day (8:30am-5:30pm). Still more expensive than the au pair though, but might be good for a day here and there, you don't need to sign up for the whole week.
No I've never had an AP before.
With flexibility, I don't have much leeway. I'm a single mum so there's no spare pair of hands to take it in turns to get home early with. On a working day I need to be at work by 9am and can't leave before 6pm (though do usually leave at 6/6.15).
I will be living within 20 mins of work.
With school holiday time, the DCs tend to spend blocks of days with their dad and then with me so the AP will be needed to mop up the time I don't have enough annual leave for. In the long summer holidays that will mean 2 weeks with him, 2 with me (those 4 weeks not necessarily back to back) and so 2-3 weeks left to fill. They could go to my parents' for a week so say a week with AP, a week away, then a week back at home.
Realistically I am not going to be able to afford to pay for summer camps etc on top of childcare. Had a leaflet through this week and it looks great but at £300 per week per child, totally unaffordable on top of other basic costs. So will need to juggle family and AP.
Have you had an au pair before?
When I have au pairs the official line has been that they get £70 allowance (plus full board of course) and that is in return for 25 hours of help spread over 5 days of the week.
I work part time, so the au pair who is coming this summer will have sole care of my 8 year old (although dh works on site) on the 2 days that I am at work, but she is happy with that as we discussed it via Skype. My two under 3's will go to nursery on the days when I am out of the house at work. Given that she will do more hours on those days, we will probably ask her to help for fewer hours on the other 3 days to balance it out. Would that work for your situation?
Thanks LadyHarrietdeSpook. Their dad and I usually split half terms and holidays so half term will be just 2-3 days full time care and school hols unlikely to be more than one full week at a time.
I also thought probably AP switchover would be in August so we might have a few weeks of no AP then, which I would try to fill with our summer hols, their dad's summer hol time and maybe a visit to grandparents. Is that normal?
It is a usual part of the job description to state that the AP will have additional hours during school holiday times. I think it is very unlikely an AP would be surprised by the request and I wouldn't worry about it. We pay £80 for 25 hrs but the AP normally is doing 20.
Doubling the pay to £160 is fine if it's the odd week and there, like covering a normal half term. Are you talking about the full six weeks in one go over the summer? In that case, I might consider laying on another activity for the children to do to give her a break. They might enjoy it anyway as well. It could get quite boring indeed at their ages to have that many hours with the au pair. But overall I think the pay is fine.
I think £80 is about right for 25 hours a week, but quite generous for 20 hours. I think £70 for 20 hours would be fair. I would times by the increase in hours for the holidays, just because that seems to be the fairest way of working it out (imo, of course).
I do recognise that not all candidates will want to take on holiday hours (though it does seem from reading on here that most AP employers do use their AP for longer hours in the holidays). So I am definitely going to make the holiday hours very clear in the ad.
I thought that £80 per week would be about normal - maybe a bit above normal (for Surrey). Actually it won't even really be 20 hours a week because school pickup is 3.30pm and most days I'm home by 6.30pm. But sometimes I might be 7pm and very occasionally later, so I thought advertising 20 hours would be sensible.
On that basis though, should I start lower for the term time weekly rate (maybe £70) and then offer 2.5 times that for the 2.5 times longer hours in the holiday weeks?
As you do not have the au-pair yet, if you make the working hours known at advertising/recruitment time is it not then up to the au-pair to decide if they want the position or not?
the au-pair may be going home or travelling for several weeks of the holidays so another thing to factor in.
I know, but it's just a good way to think of it.
She is working 20 hours and she is earning £80 and that does equate to £4ph. So when working out how much to pay for 50 hours, it makes sense to use the same kind of calculation.
If she were doing 25 hours for X amount and then you wanted to double the hours, it would make sense to double the pay wouldn't it? This is the same thing, except it's double plus a bit more.
That's how I would work it out.
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