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Change of hours

(11 Posts)
nbee84 Sun 19-May-13 21:59:52

I'm a nanny and in my job I work 30 hours over 3 days. I don't have additional work for the other days as I am quite happy doing 30 hours and like having 4 day weekends smile

In September my youngest charge starts nursery and it has been mentioned that the parents may drop the children at school in the mornings so my working day would start at 12. They would still want me to do 30 hours but over 5 days instead.

I've been with this family for 2 years. I really enjoy my job with them - get along well with both parents and have a great bond with the children. However, I don't really want 30 hours over 5 days and less days off - I feel my mornings would just be doing my housework and waiting until it's time to leave for work. Maybe catch a friend for coffee but no long lunches with friends and I lose the ability to have a long weekend away visiting friends or family.

If they did this, is my current job being made redundant? Even though they would still offer 30 working hours per week?

nannynick Sun 19-May-13 23:22:49

Does your contract state that it is 3 days?

If you say no you can't do it over 5 days, would they then give you notice to leave?

My gut feeling is that it would be redundancy but you would need to get advice about that. Perhaps ACAS would know if the contract saying hours or days per week makes a difference.

I think it may depend if it is considered to be reasonable to refuse to work 5 days, rather than 3.

AmandaCooper Sun 19-May-13 23:27:13

This is not a situation that will give rise to a redundancy payment as your employer's need for someone to do work of a particular kind has not diminished. Rather a contract variation is proposed. As the contract is between two parties: you and your employer, it follows that it may only be varied with the consent of you both. If you do not agree to the change of working hours, your employer's recourse is to dismiss you - whereupon you may be offered reemployment on the new terms. If you accept, you will continue in post and the new terms will take effect. If you refuse, your employment will terminate. At this point you could potentially bring a claim for unfair dismissal. To defend such a claim, your employer would need to show that there was a potentially fair reason to dismiss you. The change in your employer's circumstances would likely qualify as a substantial reason for them to dismiss someone who cannot accommodate the new working hours. Therefore a dismissal may well be fair.

If you have a good relationship with these people and like working for them, try and reach a compromise that does suit you. If you would like them to treat you as redundant even though technically you are not and make a severance payment, they might be willing to go down that route.

nannynick Sun 19-May-13 23:32:20

"Any change in an employee's hours of work, for example in shift patterns, may be considered unsuitable if it fails to take account of the individual's personal circumstances." (ACAS redundancy guide)

So what you are doing on those days you do not work is taken into account by the looks of it.

nannynick Sun 19-May-13 23:36:56

As Amanda says, chat to them about it and see if you can come to an agreement.

What happens in school holidays, could you do 3 days per week then?
Do you really want to leave this job?

nannynick Mon 20-May-13 09:23:57

that requirements of the business for employees to carry out particular work had not ceased or diminished. The same work remained. Accordingly, there was no redundancy but simply a reorganisation.

Found that being mentioned in an industrial tribunal case. So without the need for the work ceasing or diminishing, it may not be redundancy. Though the new work being offered may be unsuitable for the individual, if it does not take account of the individuals personal circumstances.

Nbee - do give ACAS a call, see if they can offer advice and do report back if you can.

nbee84 Mon 20-May-13 16:51:51

Thank you both.

Sounds like selfish reasons for only wanting 3 days - but from a financial point of view, if I need to earn more money I would have more chance of picking up work for a full day than a morning where I would need to finish by 11.30 at the latest. Unsure as to what would happen in school holidays as we haven't had a proper discussion yet.

I would like to stay with this family but had presumed the job would remain the same until the youngest went to school full time, rather than just morning nursery.

I may give Acas a call later this week just to see what they have to say.

OldLadyKnowsNothing Mon 20-May-13 16:57:27

Yes, I'm wondering about school holidays, and who looks after the dc when they're ill?

StealthOfficialCrispTester Mon 20-May-13 16:59:40

Worth asking whag would happen if the chikd was ill and couldnt go ti nursery too. I bet yoyd get a panicked phone call

longjane Mon 20-May-13 16:59:56

what will they do when kids sick
what about inset days nursery/school closed day like for the snow ?

Dozer Mon 20-May-13 18:26:50

can totally see your point of view. They are suggesting much less desirable terms. I guess you need to think about whether you have better options and whether they might compromise, eg 4 days or higher pay (to reflect the less desirable terms). Also agree that they may not have thought about holidays etc.

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