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Would you be put off by a nanny stating she expects to be employed?

(15 Posts)
ConfusedPixie Fri 29-Mar-13 01:52:36

I got really fed up of the time wasting of people who refused to discuss salary or employment status with me when I was looking for work before. I am thinking of putting this:

"I expect to be employed if the job is permanent as legally required by HMRC's employment status conditions. Ad-hoc and temporary work I do on a self-employed basis following these same guidelines."

on my childcare profile in the 'my fees' section for next time to deter people from contacting me unless they are willing to employ me. It's the politest way I've managed to write it and yet it still seems very patronising. However so many nannies online state that they will be self employed and I want to make it clear that I won't be and why I won't be (as so many people tried to convince me to be even when I told them I wouldn't!)

Should I reword it or is it fine as it is as it's straight and to the point?

ConfusedPixie Fri 29-Mar-13 01:53:25

"However so many nannies online state that they will be self employed and *so many families ask for it*" that's supposed to say

RichManPoorManBeggarmanThief Fri 29-Mar-13 01:56:39

I would rephrase as "If the role is permanent and full time, then I would expect to be given employee status, as per HMRC's guidelines. However in respect of part-time, temporary or ad-hoc work, I am happy to remain self-employed."

I'd add part time, since AFAIK, providing the contract doesn't prevent you working for AN Other and you are actively seeking to do so, you can be self-employed

ConfusedPixie Fri 29-Mar-13 02:00:02

I am a part-timer though and know that currently, I'm unable to be self employed as my two families still dictate my hours according to HMRC. I can't remember exactly what they said but when I checked they advised me not to waste time trying to get the go ahead on it as I likely wouldn't get it.

Thank you though, will use that wording as it works much better than mine which I've reworded 100 times and cannot get right! grin

nannynick Fri 29-Mar-13 02:43:24

"If the role is permanent, full-time or part-time, then I would..." then remove the part-time bit later on in tha paragraph.

Would it make a difference though? Is it perhaps something to do with the jobs which you are apllying for, or your area, as I did not come across this problem when looking for nannying work, though last time I looked for work was 5 years ago and job market was different then.

mrswishywashy Fri 29-Mar-13 07:27:01

I did similar when I was looking for a nanny position two years ago. I have since gone back to MNing as after 18 interviews with families either not wanting to pay tax at all or only pay part tax I got tired of explaining the tax rules. So many nannies either getting CIH or self employed now a days its not worth the fight (i was looking in central London).

skaen Fri 29-Mar-13 07:35:54

I wouldn't be put off at all. I have a nanny and deal with all her tax properly just like my own salary works. These sorts of tax avoidance strategies really piss me off.

HormoneHell Fri 29-Mar-13 07:43:35

I think it's fair enough to ask as long as you are clear that is your priority and you understand it will put you out of reach of some families.

Full tax and NI adds a 3rd to the money your employer pays. In the current economic climate many nanny employers are harder-up. We started employing our nanny with full tax declaration but then couldn't afford rises. She wanted more cash in her pocket but we prioritised tax even when she asked for cash in hand. She left. We didn't make that mistake again.

mrswishywashy Fri 29-Mar-13 08:54:23

Of course it's fair and if families can't afford a nanny then they'll have to find other arrangements (I do sympathise and wish that the govt would rejig childcare payments in the uk if they want parents to both work). Just because families can't afford to pay nanny properly doesn't mean they should cut costs by not paying tax/NIC! One interview they only wanted to pay £8 per hour and when I mentioned about how I'd expect them to pay tax/NIC the father said he'd only pay the 8 and if I wanted to pay tax it was up to me! Its not like i could even live off that wage. Now I can't imagine him accepting that from a potential employer so why should I!

HormoneHell Fri 29-Mar-13 09:16:21

I think a lot of families are now having to find other arrangements. There seems to be a lot of nannies looking for work right now and are actually asking for cash in hand. I'm about to go on maternity leave so we are saying goodbye to our nanny who is trying to find work and is shocked my the lack of jobs. Might just be our area though.

ConfusedPixie Fri 29-Mar-13 10:17:07

nannynick: It's very common in my area (Brighton)

Lots of students and foreign girls willing to work 'self employed'/cash in hand and very cheaply (£5 an hour cheap) as 'nanny/au pairs'. Lots of older and experienced nannies willing to work self employed and at low rates.

Agencies aren't helping much as they aren't really representing women with less than 5 years experience it seems if what I have heard locally is true so you've got more coming into it with no clue about financial bits and just taking what they're told by families as true. I'm hoping to get a job though an agency this time round as I will have two years live-out experience in Sussex by the time I look for work and 15 months live-in elsewhere but I don't know if it will happen. confused

fraktion Fri 29-Mar-13 12:31:34

It's shockingly common but the boom years have given people a taste for high nanny salaries and because HMRC have only recently started cracking down nannies and employers have got away with it.

Employers should prioritise tax. They're the ones who rock the fine and unpaid tax. Nannies should be insisting on legal employment because they do themselves out of SMP, holiday pay redundancy pay and a whole host of other things if they accept being self-employed. It's just screwing the country over really. Just think what you could do with estimated £57million that's lost annually through the childcare industry.

nannynick Fri 29-Mar-13 12:43:08

What is the effect on pension - state pension may not be much but it is something and I think it is based on NI contributing years.

nbee84 Fri 29-Mar-13 12:47:08

I think I must be a bit unusual - I've never been for an interview where I've been asked to be self employed or to take cash-in-hand. And my first nanny job was in 1985 so that's quite a time span!

ConfusedPixie Fri 29-Mar-13 15:15:10

nbee: I'm really amazed by that! You must be very lucky (or your experience commands serious employers?!) With my current two jobs, the first was really only browsing when she got in touch with me, had no clue what she was doing and I told her about employment status. The second tried to convince me to be self employed but I refused and they decided not to push the issue (though they still comment on it being more beneficial to me!)

I have gotten a few inquiries from parents about how nannying works and I always make sure to tell them never to let a nanny tell you that they is self employed unless they have proof from HMRC that they are entitled to be and to check that it may cover new jobs they take on and push the fact that the parents are liable for fines. I'm hoping that the message will spread over the next six-9 months so that I can find employed work when I finish my job wink

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