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CM's could I have your thoughts on naps?

(28 Posts)
FunnysInLaJardin Thu 21-Mar-13 15:51:29

I have a bit of an issue with regard to my DC2, who has not long turned 3, and him still napping in the day. He is in FT childcare with my lovely CM but still sleeps for a couple of hours every day. I know he doesn't need a nap and never does at home, but seems to be in the habit of it at CM's. The problem is if he naps he then doesn't sleep until about 10pm which is far too late.

I have asked a few times that he isn't given a nap and my CM says that he asks to sleep, but I'm sure she could persuade him not to. I suspect that it suits for him to nap and makes life generally easier, but the problem is it makes our life much more difficult.

So really is it unreasonable to ask her to make sure he doesn't nap, or should I just go with it, knowing that by September he will be at nursery and all will be resolved anyway?

minderjinx Thu 21-Mar-13 16:04:52

I have had this problem before (though at roughly two and a half). Most of my children nap after lunch, typically for 45 minutes or an hour. Parents had said they would rather he didn't as bedtimes were getting later, but we do have to cater for a child's individual needs, and if a child is asking to go to bed it would be difficult to justify saying no for no very good reason. Also when I did distract and manage to persuade him to stay up, he would invariably fall asleep on the school run, when there was absolutely nothing I could do to keep him awake, and then be in a horrible mood when I had to wake him to get out of the car, and asking to go to bed again at 4 o'clock, which is obviously worse. I think a lot of children sleep at childminders because others do, and also because they tend to do more in the morning than they might if they were at home. If you are happy with your childminder, I'd leave things as they are until September.

minderjinx Thu 21-Mar-13 16:07:15

Oh and FWIW my youngest was still having an afternoon nap right up until he started school. Every child is different and I don't think any of them have read the manual!

forevergreek Thu 21-Mar-13 16:38:37

I think you might find he still needs it. Our 3 1/2 year olds still sleeps 2hrs 95% of the time ( so maybe not once a month)

This morning he woke at 8am, after getting ready spent approx 3 hrs scooting and running around Hyde park with dh and sibling, and walking there and back. By the time he had eaten lunch and read a few books he was exhausted.

Some days I could probably keep awake but by 5pm he would be exhausted/ whinging/ not eat etc etc ( bed usually around 8pm)

What does he typically do on a day at home v a day in childcare? What is his evening like once picked up?

Basically our day is pretty full on until around 6pm, then if home those couple of hours until bed are spent winding down.

ReetPetit Thu 21-Mar-13 16:48:09

you should definately ask her not to let him have a sleep, and definately not 2 hours, that is way too much day time sleep for a 3 year old!

maybe she could compromise and wake him after 30mins-1 hr?

I think you are right, it sounds like it suits her to let him sleep that long but I agree that's too much sleep for a child of that age.

FunnysInLaJardin Thu 21-Mar-13 16:59:29

thanks for your replies. I think our normal day is quite similar to a day at the CM's as he has an older brother so they both need lots of exercise! Our evenings are wind down after I am home at 6 and we try to get both boys in bed for 7pm. DS1 who is 7 is invariably asleep way before his brother, infact DS2 often stops DS1 falling asleep earlier. Thanksfully they don't share a bedroom!

I am most certainly not going to move him as I am very happy with our CM, just wondered I suppose whether I was being unreasonable!

The only thing to do then is wait until September to get our evenings back!

FunnysInLaJardin Thu 21-Mar-13 17:00:21

oh and he gets picked up by DH at about 4pm so plenty of time to wind down etc

HSMMaCM Thu 21-Mar-13 17:38:36

I look after a child who is not supposed to have a sleep. Today he was cranky and asked to go to bed (very unusual). He lay down and went straight to sleep. I started crashing around after about half an hour and he woke up and was much happier. He definitely needed a sleep today, but I would only let an older child sleep that long against parents wishes if they were not roused easily (usually a sign of illness).

Having said that ... I have cared for children who have had long afternoon naps right up to starting school and others who have dropped all daytime sleep by the time they are 2.

If your CM insists your DC needs a sleep, then maybe just ask if it can be shorter.

ZuleikaD Thu 21-Mar-13 18:35:07

Childminders have to act in the best interests of the child, which may not be in accordance with the parent's wishes, necessarily. If a child needs a nap (and if a child is asking to go to sleep, and then sleeps, IMO they need that nap) then the childminder is more obliged to do what the child needs than they are to do what the parent has asked. Daytime sleep does not, IME have that much of an impact on night-time sleep - a 3 yo still needs about 12 hours of sleep in 24 and if they're not going to sleep until 10pm at home it is unlikely to be because they had an afternoon nap.

calmlychaotic Thu 21-Mar-13 19:04:51

Have you told your cm that he isn't getting to bed till 10 at night, I would have thought that's the reason he needs a nap so if she stops nap he'll get to bed earlier and following day not need the nap. I think she needs to work with you on this, I couldn't cope if my ds was up so late, I need some child free time in the evening.

FunnysInLaJardin Thu 21-Mar-13 22:02:05

I am going to speak to her tomorrow and ask how long DS2 naps for and then ask that she gets him up after half an hour. I have said on many occasions that he wasn't asleep until ie 10pm last night and she always says 'oh but he loves his nap' She has said in the past that she would stop putting him down, but I know she still does as this am she said ref potty training, oh he needed a nappy after I had put him down for his nap. And me in my weary state thought ffs you aren't supposed to be putting him down for a nap at all!

Zuleika My 3yo is full on and if he naps not only does he go to bed later he also gets up earlier. He has been doing 10pm until 6am this week. It seems that the more sleep at night he gets the more he needs. At the weekend if he sleeps at about 7pm he doesn't wake until about 7.30am. The only reason he doesn't sleep until 10pm is because he has had a nice nap midday, and is then up bright and early knowing he will get a lovely sleep at midday. Tis a pita as he comes and wakes us all up inc his 7yo brother who would sleep tip 8 given the chance angry grin

FunnysInLaJardin Thu 21-Mar-13 22:07:17

and I suppose the main issue here is that DH and I both work FT and have been very busy the last few weeks so the last thing we want is to be up and downstairs all night sorting out a bright as a button 3yo when it could be solved so easily. I feel that our needs and wishes are being entirely ignored

looneytune Thu 21-Mar-13 22:10:28

Totally of the same view as calmlychaotic and think that they are tired BECAUSE they went to bed so late and didn't get enough sleep. I think it just needs a little work to adjust the current routine. If I had a tired child I wouldn't stop them sleeping, however, by that age I would certainly be making noise by a maximum of an hour rather than let them sleep that long, especially if I knew how bad the evenings were at home (poor you and your family).

Definitely talk to her again, good luck smile

looneytune Thu 21-Mar-13 22:18:25

p.s. I totally get the later to sleep, the earlier to rise thing, my ds2 is just the same! I'm surprised your childminder isn't working with you, I would never ignore a parents requests like this, I'd at least try and work something that we are all happy with

Karoleann Fri 22-Mar-13 05:40:51

I don't think most 3 year olds need a nap - mine certainly didn't we used to meet friends a lot in the afternoon and theirs didn't sleep either(i suggest if you ask her, her child didn't either at that age).
We had a similar issue with the boys at nursery, they would let them sleep and then they wouldn't be in bed til 9, then couldn't get them up etc........

Your childminder probably likes the 2 hours a day she has to do stuff. Could you suggest that if he is feeling a bit "weary" he could watch a bit of TV for 40 minutes or so? I think its good to have a bit of down time anyway.

Do talk to her, but maybe just be a bit more firm, she shouldn't be ignoring your wishes.

weegiemum Fri 22-Mar-13 05:56:25

It's a long time ago, but dd1 (she recently turned 13!) napped in the afternoon until she was 4, but still always went to bed at 8, slept till 6ish.

After about a year, her CM asked if it was ok if she didnt have her nap as other dc wanted to go out etc - it was summer and we lived then in a place with great beaches, countryside etc.

I said ok and yes- she just had got in the habit. Dropping the nap meant she started sleeping 7-7 and I'd never have thought of it if the brilliant CM hadn't suggested it! (we're in Scotland so dd1 didn't start school until she was 5 and a half). I did pretty much what CM had done with the younger two dc - by the time ds was that age I was a sahm and by the time dd2 was that age I was back at college full time and she had a nanny who never stopped!!

This is just my experience of preschool napping!

Mutley77 Fri 22-Mar-13 08:36:25

I think you are well within your rights to ask. It is not in your child's interest (nor the rest of your family) for him to nap during the day resulting in him being up until 10pm at night. I totally agree with you that is the cause as my DS was/is (now aged 4) the same - he can have 20 mins nap in the car (which he rarely does as he doesn't need daytime sleep) and then it will take him an extra hour to get to sleep. Therefore he stopped napping at age 2 and we have never looked back smile

It was a shock to my system as DD (4 years older) always had a daytime nap until starting school and it had no impact on her night times. She often naps in the car even now (aged 8) and seems to need a lot of sleep.

My cm used to ocassionally put DS down against my will (!) but as it was only ocassional I let it go - every day I would have had to be a bit more forceful.

ZuleikaD Fri 22-Mar-13 09:18:18

definately not 2 hours, that is way too much day time sleep for a 3 year old!

Rubbish. I have a nearly 4 year old who often sleeps for two hours if not three in the afternoon and still sleeps 7-6 at night.

forevergreek Fri 22-Mar-13 09:31:25

Wrote long MSG and lost!

Basically as a sleep consultant I would always include a min 1hr, pref 2ht nap into a 3 year olds sleep plan. With 11-12 hrs at night

chocolateygoo Fri 22-Mar-13 09:51:54

I disagree with posters saying that all children of x age need x hours nap. Each child is different!! If on days when he doesn't nap, he goes to sleep at 7 pm, and days when he does nap, he's still wide awake at 10 pm, its pretty clear the nap is not a good idea. I suspect if your CM had to look after him till 10pm at night, she wouldn't be putting him down to nap in the afternoon anymore!

(My DS dropped his afternoon nap just before aged 2, on the rare occasions since then that he has had one (now aged 3), he also cannot fall asleep till late evening).

forevergreek Fri 22-Mar-13 11:16:18

Chocolateygoo- but children do need a good amount of sleep. They grow and their brains develop in their sleep. Therefore not only is a child not sleeping at night having affect on current behaviour but it leads on into their future.

A child who sleeps 12 hrs at night until say 8 years versus a child only sleeping 8 hrs will have received a lots less hours for their brain to develop and process information

4 hrs less a day is 28 hrs less a week, over 8 years thats over 11,500 hours less sleep than the ' average' child. Surely you can see how that would have an affect

To op- I would allow nap to continue but ask that he is awake by 2pm latest ( so approx 1-2 sleep, or earlier if super tired)

chocolateygoo Fri 22-Mar-13 12:21:07

Forever yes I agree they definitely need a lot of sleep and missing out on sleep is bad. However its how you divide it up over the day between night time and naps that I think is tricky to justify being the same for all children. e.g. For the OP the choice is between:

(a) have 12 hours: from 7 pm to 7 am

(b) have 10 hours: 10pm to 6am and 1pm to 3pm (or similar)

Then surely (a) is preferable? I think if the daytime nap hours is affecting the night time sleep, then the nap has to go. If the daytime nap hours are in addition to a good nights sleep, then no problem. I'm very jealous of people whose toddlers sleep well in both the afternoon and at night!

Karoleann Fri 22-Mar-13 12:26:29

forever - I would certainly agree with chocolate.

The strengthening of the neuronal connections that occurs in the brain during sleep is a finite process too, so doesn't carry on indefinately with more and more sleep. It only has an impact if the child is sleep-deprived, which is considerably more likely to happen if he/she aren't going to sleep til 10pm.

forevergreek Fri 22-Mar-13 13:12:26

Sure a) woul be better in that scenario, but I would always aim for the c) option of nap plus 12 hrs.

I know many people don't agree and that's fine. I'm just saying on the hundreds of sleep plans I work with I would be aiming higher. as an idea I currently have 32 children age 3-4 that I have dealt with in the last 3 months, 29 of them are now sleeping 8pm-8am, plus a nap of at least an hour sometime between 12-3. Very few of them slept through the night or napped previously.

chocolateygoo Fri 22-Mar-13 14:37:37

forever I would love option C. How do you do it (or is that a trade secret - in which case, how much do you charge?!)

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