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CM club, can i do this?

(11 Posts)
andthenshewasdone Sun 03-Mar-13 19:57:15

hello, i have minding for just over a year and i totally love it. i am very keen to build my business and my usp is catering for shift workers (as a former shift worker myself i know how difficult everything can be).

so, my current situation is that i have my own almost 3 yr old, with a 2 yr old 2 days a week, late start on one of these days. i am about to start a 100 hour a month contract for a baby, very much shift working, ie to include one weekend, late nights etc. i have requested that this excludes my 2yr olds 2 days as much as poss so that i can still have a full time place available.

i now have a potential enquiry for a 2 week 2 week off contract, perhaps 2 to 8 days a month, office hours, for a sibling pair, 1 and 4 years. the chances of everyone coinciding are relatively small, and i would be able to ship off my own dd if this happened, leaving me occaisionally with 4 in pre school category. i do feel i could safely manage this as i am very confident with children, and very well organised.
however, would i be allowed to do this? assuming a clash of a few hours a couple of times a month.
i can't think of anyone else locally who would be interested in this sibling pair so i feel that i want to help.


looneytune Sun 03-Mar-13 20:31:31

I believe you can have 4 preschool children if they are all already on your books i.e. not new business HOWEVER this always used to include your own children. Having said that, I can't remember what our new certificates say and I haven't paid much attention to the changes as I'm about to stop minding (7 days left). Sure someone will be along soon to confirm.

HSMMaCM Sun 03-Mar-13 20:51:50

I think they have to be existing business and include your child, it I'm sure miss truss can advise you !

apotomak Sun 03-Mar-13 20:57:30

Your own child ALWAYS counts in your numbers and it doesn't matter if he is present or not. So you cannot conveniently ship your own child off to accommodate another. Not sure where you requested for your child to be excluded from your ratios confused
My son is 3 and is in pre school every day but my numbers are still reduced even though he's not present for some of the day.
And funnily enough ... as I work with my husband who is also a childminder himself and when we go on a school run and my son is with my husband while I go on a school run he's still counted into my allowance even though my husband is looking after him and takes one of his spaces.
If chances of clashing are relatively small why not find an assistant (like your own family member or a friend who could help out) should this ever happen. You're then legal and not invalidating your insurance.

mrsthomsontobe Sun 03-Mar-13 21:56:42

That's a bit unfair bout your own children always being included. They dont specify that in Scotland. You get your certificate with the number of children u can care for at a time. So if they come out as long as I only have 3 under 5 and 3 above it doesn't make any difference if any of them are mine or if they are all childminded children. As I understand it in England does your certificate only show the number of minded children allowed with your children deducted from the numbers. Sorry if I'm wrong about tht.

andthenshewasdone Mon 04-Mar-13 07:18:47

thank you everyone. looks like a no go unless i find an assistant. will have a think!

ZuleikaD Mon 04-Mar-13 07:19:10

Your own children are always included in England.

OP it's nice that you want to take this sibling pair but the juggling sounds unfeasible, to be honest.

Runoutofideas Mon 04-Mar-13 07:28:08

I thought this was what the "removal of conditions" by Ofsted referred to. I received a letter from Ofsted last week which stated the following:

"We intend to remove the following conditions which apply to your registration:

- May care for no more than 4 children under 8 years" (Because my own children are 5 and 7)

"We are removing these conditions because the EYFS and the General childcare register regulations set out the requirements you must meet......and the exceptional circumstances in which you may exceed these ratios which are the same as the current requirements"

I read this as I can have 6 under 8's, counting my 2 if they are present but not if they are not, which seems much more sensible.

In your case OP, could you start caring for the 4yr old of the sibling pair first, then add in the baby a bit later as a sibling for an existing child?

This is taken from the ofsted factsheet:" 7.Paragraph 3.29 in the EYFS also allows childminders to care for more children, including babies, in the early years age group through an overarching ‘exceptional circumstances’ statement. In each case, before agreeing to take on a baby or older child as an exception, the childminder must make sure they can continue to meet the needs of all the children who attend, including making sure children are safe and that they receive an enjoyable and challenging learning experience. The childminder must make this decision in relation to each child they care for as an exception. Paragraph 3.29 does not give the permission to operate with more children in the early years age group at all times without an assessment as to whether an exception is appropriate."

Because your situation the clash is only going to happen occasionally, I would think that the above paragraph would apply to you.

mamamaisie Mon 04-Mar-13 10:05:54

How far in advance will the 100 hour a week baby's mum be able to give you her shift pattern? If she can do this at least a couple of weeks in advance then you could offer an adhoc contract to the sibling pair. As soon as the baby's mum gives you her hours then you can let the siblings mum know which days you are available. It means the siblings mum may have to juggle her shifts around a little, but if nobody else is able to take them on locally then she may be happy with this arrangement. The children will all be attending for a faily small number of hours each month, so it sounds like you will be able to fit them all in most of the time, and it will only be a problem occasionally. I assume that the 4 year old will be starting school in September so it won't be long before the child no longer counts in your under 5 numbers anyway. Also, once you have been looking after them all for a few months you might be able to start granting yourself variations for continuity of care. I have done adhoc contracts for shift workers in the past and it has worked well. smile

MrAnchovy Mon 04-Mar-13 16:38:46

"Your own child ALWAYS counts in your numbers and it doesn't matter if he is present or not."

This is no longer true (since September 2012) and your certifcate will be reissued soon to make this clear.

Runoutofideas you are exactly right.

andthenshewasdone Mon 04-Mar-13 21:47:34

brilliant, thank you. i don't think siblings mum can have much flexibility, but at least have some more facts to base discussions on. thanks!

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