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National Insurance

(32 Posts)
laalala Mon 14-Jan-13 20:34:02

What do I have to do as a nanny about national insurance. Anything? Or do I not earn enough so don't have to bother about it?

MrAnchovy Wed 16-Jan-13 00:00:39

Xenia I don't think you use the phrase "I'm right" to mean the same thing as I do grin

It doesn't mattter whether they are called au pairs or anything else, and it doesn't matter whether they are in sole charge of children or not, if they are staff employed for domestic duties living with the family then the NMW does not apply to them.

"Also 48 hour maximum working week unless you've opted out of it and seems to exceed that too."

No, again domestic staff (this time whether live-in or live-out) are exempt from that requirement.

fraktion Tue 15-Jan-13 23:18:43

There is no prohibition regarding au pairs of any nationality and sole charge. The only existing legislation relates to working hours and that's on A2 nationals. You could call someone an au pair, have them work 50 hours (and pay them accordingly) within the spirit of cultural exchange etc if, for example, that sole charge covered 2 overnight shifts where the au pair is technically working and in sole charge but it doesn't impact on their ability to take language lessons etc. But this isn't an au pair role.

I do understand someone consciously deciding to take low paid role in order to gain experience they perceive as valuable but that needs to be weighed up carefully.

Xenia Tue 15-Jan-13 22:07:41

So Mr A you are saying I'm right aren't you? The au pairs not in sole charge living with the family don't need to be paid the minimum wage.

So if sole charge it looks like roughly depending on her age and if in UK etc needs to be paid about £6 an hour x 50 hours = £300 a week less that £33 = 267 but may be the 50 hours includes a lunch break and is not all time worked? If it were then that leaves £267 and she is paid 150 so may be could claim about £100 for every week worked so far in back pay perhaps when she leaves?

So if done a year the leavingp resent or legal claim might be £5200 from the family. Keep all records of hours, contracts, sums paid right through the time with the family.

Also 48 hour maximum working week unless you've opted out of it and seems to exceed that too.

botandhothered Tue 15-Jan-13 20:23:39

I suggest you look for a better job.
You are being exploited.
Gum tree, childcare uk nanny job etc.
Sure you will find something quickly where your employer doesn't want to take the piss out of you. Good luck!

MrAnchovy Tue 15-Jan-13 19:03:26

I think there are in relation to the minimum wage for au pairs

No, not specifically. However there is an exemption from the requirements for the National Minimum Wage for workers in certain conditions where "the worker resides in the family home of the employer for whom he works, [and] the worker is not a member of that family, but is treated as such, in particular as regards to the provision of accommodation and meals and the sharing of tasks and leisure activities". Most au pairs and many live-in nannies fit this description, although interpretation of "sharing of leisure activities" is somewhat troublesome.

but sole charge is not an au pair anyway so that is not relevant.

There is no legal definition of an au pair in the UK. The only regulations where the term is used is in relation to the Accession Worker Scheme for Bulgarian and Romanian nationals where "au pair" is one of the limited number of occupations that such a national can work in. However there is no definition of what constitutes an "au pair" and as "domestic employee in a private household" is another such occupation with exactly the same treatment, and "au pairs" are clearly a subset of this category, there is little relevance to any restriction.

I wonder how they work out how much the benefit of free board and lodging is worth in working out if someone is paid more than the minimum wage?

This is called the National Minimum Wage Accomodation Offset and it is set arbitrarily at £4.82 a day or £33.74 a week. No other offset is permitted, including any for food or any other aspect of board, however for workers that fall within the exemption mentioned above this is irrelevant.

breatheslowly Tue 15-Jan-13 18:47:57

This indicates the circumstances under which you are exempted from the minimum wage and the minimum wage levels for different ages. This says that a deduction can be made of £33.74 for accommodation per week, but no other benefit (e.g. your Oyster Card or food can count towards it). There is also a helpline which may be able to determine whether you should be paid the minimum wage.

Xenia Tue 15-Jan-13 18:20:18

I think there are in relation to the minimum wage for au pairs, but sole charge is not an au pair anyway so that is not relevant.

I wonder how they work out how much the benefit of free board and lodging is worth in working out if someone is paid more than the minimum wage?

laalala Tue 15-Jan-13 18:17:37

It's my first job as a nanny, I've had a previous non childcare job, and I have a qualification in childcare. It is a bit low but as I didn't really know what I was doing when I took the job I didn't know it was low. I guess you learn from your mistakes, but it's good experience in the long wrong. I'm not an au pair no all of the 50 hours are sole charge of the children. It does include an Oyster card too.

MrAnchovy Tue 15-Jan-13 16:40:02

No there are no special rules about au pairs for tax.

Xenia Tue 15-Jan-13 15:13:29

If you are an au pair there may be some special rules for that about tax.

MrAnchovy Tue 15-Jan-13 15:11:36

"It's low because it includes accommodation, no bills and all food included whilst on duty."

The going rate for someone with no experience in this kind of role is £200-£250. In addition the employer would normally provide either a car (unlikely for someone under 21 or even under 25) or a bus pass, and a mobile phone with £10 or so a month top-up, both to be used while on duty but available for occasional private use.

"I have a national insurance number, I'm British."

In that case it is very important that they properly report your earnings under PAYE, otherwise you are not building up entitlement to any state pension. The fact that they do not give you a payslip makes me suspect that they are not intending to report your earnings. It is currently impossible to check this because these returns are only made annually, but from April they need to be made each time you are paid.

I think the best thing for you to do would be to contact a Citizens Advice Bureau, or possibly ACAS and talk through the situation.

Heiderose Tue 15-Jan-13 15:06:26

For my first live in Nanny Job I was paid £320 a week plus my tax/NI for doing 55hrs.
I had my own room with ensuite, didn't have to pay any bills and I had all food and drink provided 24/7. I also received an Oyster card that they topped up each week.
That was 6 years ago and I know that all my live in nanny friends get between £350-£400 now.
I only had 1 previous part time nanny job under my belt at that point.

£140 seems very,very low even for a first time job.I would check that they're paying your tax for you as they should be.

botandhothered Tue 15-Jan-13 14:33:31

Do you look after the children on your own for 50 hours, or is the Mother there most of the time?

MissNJE Tue 15-Jan-13 13:53:53

How much experience do you have? Is this your first job?

laalala Tue 15-Jan-13 13:42:19

It's low because it includes accommodation, no bills and all food included whilst on duty. I don't get a pay slip but I do have a contract. I have a national insurance number, I'm British.

MrAnchovy Tue 15-Jan-13 01:21:12

No tax or NI is payable at £130pw. However at this level (above £107pw), the employer should be registered for PAYE and reporting your earnings because as others have mentioned you earn National Insurance credits towards the basic state pension, as well as jobseekers allowance and other benefits.

You should receive a payslip each week, and it is normal (although not mandatory) to show your National Insurance number on the payslip. Has your employer asked you for your NI number?

No I thought not. They are breaking the law.

Do you have a written contract? Or a written Statement of Employment Particulars? No I thought not - they are breaking the law.

What paid holidays are you entitled to? Is it at least 5.6 weeks (although 1.6 weeks of these can be bank holidays)? They may be breaking the law.

Breaking the law regarding employment is a form of exploitation. Paying £130 plus board and lodging for 50 hours work is also a form of exploitation, even if it is your first job and you are young (I presume you are at least 18, and that the 50 hours is full-on work and not just babysitting while kids are in bed).

Now for practical things - do you have a National Insurance number? What nationality are you?

fraktion Mon 14-Jan-13 22:36:50

That's a very low wage but if you feel happy and it's a job which is gaining you experience (so you consciously chose to accept it) then it may be worth the short term low income. I agree you need to be living as part of the family though.

Do you think things aren't above board?

MissNJE Mon 14-Jan-13 22:28:45

You earn £130 a week for 50 hours work? shock

breatheslowly Mon 14-Jan-13 22:03:29

Paying NIC is also important for being able to claim some benefits - so is important well before you retire.

breatheslowly Mon 14-Jan-13 21:59:43

You sound like an employee to me. Your employers should therefore be paying NIC and PAYE for you. If they are not paying your NIC you may not be able to claim your full state pension when you retire - it is therefore very important that they do pay your NIC. I am not sure if they will need to make deductions for employee's NIC too.

Do you live as part of the family? Eat meals with the family and socialise with the family? If you live as part of the family then you are exempted from the minimum wage, but if not then you should be paid the minimum wage with a small deduction for your accommodation link.

laalala Mon 14-Jan-13 21:39:08

Erm okay, I'm only asking as someone's mentioned I should have sorted it out already, have been with the family for a few months now. It's my first job working as a nanny yes and I am young. I work about 50 hours a week.

Iggly Mon 14-Jan-13 21:36:35

You should still get a payslip even if below the threshold because you need records eg if you earned more than the minimum.

nannynick Mon 14-Jan-13 21:33:44

Would I be right in saying that your job role is like that of an au-pair, helping out around the home, and that you are quite young (such as under 25) and that this may be your first job? Your pay is rather low for a nanny, thus you may be more of an au-pair, though may not be doing language classes.

How many hours of work would you say you do?

nannynick Mon 14-Jan-13 21:27:58

Not sure. MrAnchovy or someone else in the know may be along at some point, they will know more about what happens in the situation were you earn that amount per week.

What has prompted you to ask about National Insurance?

TwoKidsAndCounting Mon 14-Jan-13 21:25:07

If you are self-employed you should pay your own NI contributions either 6 monthly or weekly by direct debit. If you earn under the threshold you can apply for a small earnings exemption where you won't need to pay. If you are employed (PAYE) it's up to your employer to pay your contributions. Either way you should know as if you aren't paying then you won't be entitled to maternity allowance or basic state pension.

Hope this helps.

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