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'Ministers plan childcare changes' Newsnight 10 Dec

(27 Posts)
Italiana Tue 11-Dec-12 08:01:29

The PM and Clegg are due to report on changes to childcare, c/minders mainly, in the new year
Higher ratio and qualifications being announced
There was a debate on Newsnight last night, E Truss should have appeared with Sharon Hodgson but Truss pulled out last minute

Stoney666 Thu 13-Dec-12 21:53:07

Parents not patients shock

Stoney666 Thu 13-Dec-12 17:16:50

I would give up if I had to have a degree. Ridiculous. What next? All patents must have a degree!!!!

Strix Thu 13-Dec-12 15:54:14

Oh gosh, i did not mean that getting a degree is a waste of time. I meant that requiring them for ALL childminders would in some cases be inappropriate.

I personally would prefer a childminder who has a degree, especially for older kids who might need some homework help. But thats just me. Is not important to everyone.

Tanith Thu 13-Dec-12 09:46:58

You sound just like my mum, Strix smile
She can't understand why I bothered either.

Partly it's for me. My family couldn't afford for me to go to university and I wanted to show I was capable of studying to degree level. I've also found it interesting and beneficial for my work.

Partly it's for my business and profession. We're so often regarded as uneducated plebs who can't do anything else, so have to stay at home and look after other people's babies. I hope that we've proved something to those people who think like that.

I'm no better or worse at my job than another childminder without a degree: never claimed to be. I do think the courses I've done have helped me to understand better the education and development of young children. That insight sometimes helps me to understand and deal with behaviour in a different way.

But no, degrees are not compulsory, although you'd be surprised how many childminders have them.

MrAnchovy Thu 13-Dec-12 08:05:10

Now you are given so long after registering to get level 3 aren't you? (or is that a line my Early Years department spun?)

There is no national requirement, although LAs may impose a requirement in order to be part of their local network which is a necessity if providing funded places for 3-4 year olds (but should not be for the new funding for 2 year olds).

And as a level 3 is vocational how do you get the experience? By volunteering in a nursery?

That's up to the training provider.

Surely the 6 week local authority course is adequate for start up?

LAs vary widely. The courses provided by many LAs may not cover the statutory requirements of the new EYFS: this may become a problem in the future.

MaryPoppinsBag Thu 13-Dec-12 06:43:52

I thought as much.

Now you are given so long after registering to get level 3 aren't you? (or is that a line my Early Years department spun?)

How does this go towards making childminding cheaper for parents? Because I would imagine a CM has to pay for her own course. Who will want to do that when business is not guaranteed. And as a level 3 is vocational how do you get the experience? By volunteering in a nursery? Just not practical for many CM's who want to earn a living while completing it. But I guess it ties in with the current thinking that nursery provision is better.

A level 3 is really not necessary for CM. Although I hasten to add I have attended lots of courses run by my LA - Child Development, EYFS sessions etc which have been useful.

So far I've found the Level 3 to be disappointing. Rehashing stuff I already know from other courses. And it is very poorly taught. (might just be my course though influencing my thoughts on the merits of a Level 3)

Time and time again in here people say nursery style provision is not what we want from their CM. Surely the 6 week local authority course is adequate for start up?

MrAnchovy Thu 13-Dec-12 00:37:23

Sorry, should have said:

There is a consensus that the minimum level of qualificaiton suitable for childminders is an NVQ3...

MrAnchovy Thu 13-Dec-12 00:34:14

Noone is talking about mandatory degrees for childcare (unlike nursing). The level of qualificaiton that is agreed as suitable for childminders is an NVQ3 like this one, generally considered to be the equivalent of two years of study for A-levels or a BTEC National Diploma.

The unresolved questions are whether this should be a mandatory requirement for anyone looking after other people's children for reward, a necessary requirement for state subsidy (e.g. through Tax Credits, 3-4 year old Early Years Funding or the new 2-year old funding), or as now purely a recommendation, and if it is to become mandatory what timescales and other details will apply.

MaryPoppinsBag Wed 12-Dec-12 22:13:12

Nowhere I was taking the piss.

Sick of all the speculation, so I thought I'd take the piss.

Strix Wed 12-Dec-12 21:28:37

Where does it say childminders will need to have a degree... Which would of course be silly and in many cases just plain inappropriate.

HSMM Wed 12-Dec-12 20:42:13

I have done my degree while Childminding too, but there are people without degrees who are just as good as me.

Tanith Wed 12-Dec-12 13:08:39

No offence taken smile

I've done my degree while childminding, though, not before.

RosieGirl Wed 12-Dec-12 12:50:46

No offence to those with a degree (honest) grin

I just feel they are stopping a lot of people who haven't managed to make it all the way to uni, who are perfectly capable of doing these types of jobs with good consistent training and the right attitude.

After working with children for 10 years doing an NVQ and finding I am really good at it, I looked at alternative areas to develop in, but unless I have a degree I'm stuffed and as I didn't get any qualifications at school it would be a long hard slog (We also as a family couldn't afford for me to study).

Hey ho, which is why I am currently nagging my 16 yo daughter to get qualifications now, as it is so much harder later.

MaryPoppinsBag Wed 12-Dec-12 11:22:13

Rosiegirl I have heard that said before.

Tanith I too have a degree but not in childcare.

But I am a warm and caring person, great with kids and good at wiping things! smile

Tanith Wed 12-Dec-12 10:08:39

I've got a degree - I do all that, too, honest!

I just do it more intellectually grin

RosieGirl Wed 12-Dec-12 08:28:58

MaryPoppinsBag - this is why nursing is also having problems, because instead of employing caring, loving, people how have bags of common sense and choose nursing as a vocation, they want people that have a degree........

MaryPoppinsBag Tue 11-Dec-12 21:57:14

Clear as mud then.

Are we supposed to have degrees now to give out cuddles, wipe bums, noses and sticky fingers etc?

I will wait with bated breath.

Italiana Tue 11-Dec-12 16:12:48

This is the clip from Newsnight

Strix Tue 11-Dec-12 13:41:27

It's amazing the number of threads on here about changes which have not yet been announced.

But, let's be clear about the difference between fees and hourly wages. Some £5 per hour is not what you are expected to live on. It is the fee of one child per hour. But, as you can have quite a few children you might make a whole lot more.

The money should go directly to parents to spend as and where they choose. And it should be available to all children.

RosieGirl Tue 11-Dec-12 12:24:33

I agree with you Stoney - I just don't get it that they want us to take on more children, become more qualified, spend more of our money on resources, but expect us to be cheaper???

Will they build me an extension as well as I couldn't don'twant----to have any more. When I have worked any length of time with 4 under 5 I am absolutely knackered (and this isn't full time) this cannot give good quality safe care in the long run.

Stoney666 Tue 11-Dec-12 11:49:55

I would want more money not less for looking after more children. It can be blooming hard work with paperwork etc on top. Perhaps Truss should walk in our shoes for a while!!!!

fraktion Tue 11-Dec-12 09:31:03

Also I'm fed up of them quoting the French ratio. Your initial allowance is 1:2, after 6 months if you're delivering effective care you can apply for 1:3 and then 1:4 but you must have a separate room for each child to sleep in! Also it's only up to the age of 2 because after that the periscolaire rule kicks in for children at maternelle full time, which is hardly any at 2y9m.

They make it sound like you can have 1:4 straight away which you can't! In fact that 'dérogation' is pretty rare IME and designed to be exceptional. Not that many CMs have 4 rooms available for CMing.

fraktion Tue 11-Dec-12 09:27:07

£5.09 is more than you'd get where I live for a child of any age.

We know changes are coming, when will they get a bloody nice on and announce it?!

Italiana Tue 11-Dec-12 08:49:41

Yes they did and no one on that panel came up with any solutions...they all have opinions but not one of them has an aswer as to why costs are high
Truss is following her ideology and will listen to no parents awnt c/ms with 5 under 5?
I hope not...the only thing was that deregulation was not discussed but Truss has hinted she will change the law (EYFS for a start)

Infuriating that those who earn lots of money think c/ms should survive on £5.09 to care for disadvantaged 2 year olds or whatever pittance the LAs dish out for 3/4 year olds
How much has the Govt spent on consultations, EYFS reforms, commissioning research and the CCommission? that is where the money is going and wasted instead of being invested in childcare

stomp Tue 11-Dec-12 08:17:56

wonder why she pulled out?
The whole thing is a mess and very stressful for all of us working in the sector.

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