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Parent has asked for 2 year old to have no sleep during 11 hour day with me

(89 Posts)
childminder90210 Mon 08-Oct-12 13:17:31

Title says it all really parent has asked for 2 year old child not to have a sleep during the day as npt sleeping well at night, but child is with me for 11 hours and I feel its a bit unrealistic but unsure how to deal with this as n
ever been asked this before. My response so far has been well all i can do is try. Have you ever had this before and how did you deal with it as I feel its a little unfair to expect a child to go over 11 hours without a sleep at that age when its quite busy some days here too. Any thoughts or experiences welcome thanks

childminder90210 Mon 08-Oct-12 22:29:31

I kept him awake all day today which resulted in him falling asleep whilst eating his dinner. So I advised that I felt a 30 min sleep very early on would just carry him through his long day and so he would nt be irritable at pick up time and parents could enjoy the time before bed time.

I hate handing over irritable grumpy children to parents who have been out at work all day and feel that the needs of the child should come first and he clearly needs a sleep to get through a long busy day in childcare.

All children are different and different things work for different people but the most important thing is that the child is happy and content. AFAIK he is going to bed ok but waking in the night, but this is only a recent thing in last few weeks not a persistant problem

narmada Mon 08-Oct-12 22:31:21

Surely you have to try what the parents ask? If our DS who is nearly 2 has a nap in the day he is awake until ten pm. DD was totally different and gave up her nap only because she went to preschool at three and a bit.

The parents are probably at their wits end and willing to try anything.

SamSmalaidh Mon 08-Oct-12 22:35:07

You should work with the parents, but not if it is to the detriment of the child's welfare.

FunnysInLaJardin Mon 08-Oct-12 22:36:56

we struggle with this. DS2 is 2.5 and sometimes can cope without a nap and then goes to sleep at about 7ish. He really does enjoy his nap though but then stays awake until 9pm or later. He has a cold and napped for 3 hours today, so late to bed. I don't think you can stop a child napping if they ned to. DS2 fell asleep in his dinner a couple of months ago, quite literally grin

MaryPoppinsBag Mon 08-Oct-12 23:11:29

Sometimes parents are wrong.
I have read through this thread thinking I bet he falls asleep at school run or at tea time.

One of my mindees still needs a nap some days at just turned 3. His old CM used to let him sleep for 2 + hours at 3pm which did affect his sleep at night.
I listened to parents request and his naps are shorter. I don't prod him awake I just move him from the buggy if he falls asleep on school run. Or if an earlier nap during quiet time wake him to get him ready to go on school run.

3duracellbunnies Mon 08-Oct-12 23:13:55

I don't think I've ever had more night wakings due to naps, not going to bed at a reasonable hour I've had in bucket loads, but waking is usually due to being ill, uncomfortable, bad bedtime habits which they then want in the night too, needing to do a wee once potty traininng has started, teeth, sound of heating going on/off, when dd picked up worms at preschool that woke her up, but not nap times.

Why not suggest that they keep a sleep diary. They are probably knackered working all day and then up half the night. Working out the triggers is probably the most useful thing.

goldygumdrops Tue 09-Oct-12 07:28:06

Are you quite busy with him? I ask because when my mum looks after my little girl she is constantly entertaining her - reading books, painting, playing on the floor, interacting all the time. When i look after her most of the time, i do play with her of course, but i also have patches of time when i am not interacting with her and she is playing alone. After a day with my mum she is soooooo tired. With me she just has one short nap, with my mum a longer one. Maybe these parents are not so 'full on' with their child so he is not so tired when with them, whilst you are more playful and activity based with him so he does get more tired?

I think they are being very unreasonable for what its worth. If he needs to nap, he needs to nap. And loads of children that age have night wakings. Its part of being a parent. And 11 hours is a very very long day with a small toddler to keep them on the go.

I could make other judgements but i will hold back grin biscuit

thearistocat Tue 09-Oct-12 11:05:43

The problem with doing as she says is that if you try, and fail, then the nap that does happen will undoubtedly be at 5/6pm which WILL affect his nighttime sleep! Surely a 1.30pm-2.30 PM won't affect night sleep for a two year old.

I'd just do it I think and say he fell asleep and you felt that if you woke him he would be unhappy which would be unfair on him, and upset the other children. It's a hard one though.

MousyMouse Tue 09-Oct-12 11:08:49

Surely a 1.30pm-2.30 PM won't affect night sleep for a two year old.
oh yes it does for us...

PropositionJoe Tue 09-Oct-12 11:11:52

You are wrong to feel bad about waking a sleeping child and if he does have a nap with you then you must wake him up and keep it short, to be fair to the parents. He may be grumpy in the evening, if he is it will only be for a short while and they may well prefer it to being kept up all night.

Nodecentnickname Tue 09-Oct-12 11:17:23

A nap durng the day would balls up my 2 yr old sleep pattern. She would be up until really late.

She dropped her nap at 18 months.

I can't believe those figs provided by the sleep clinic! My little one has never required that much sleep.

That said, if your mindee is really tired and normally has a nap, it's going to be tricky for you. Especially of he has a full on day of fun at yours. I would let him conk out at tea time then hand him over to the parents! Then they can see that he needs a nap.

Blondeshavemorefun Tue 09-Oct-12 12:41:19

Do what the mum asks you for a week and see what happens - ie will prob fall asleep on school run / tea : or even worse on way home with parents

Then suggest an am sleep

I wouldn't advise lying to parents but what a friend did was to put charge down for a sleep 11/12 and not tell parents they slept and child went to bed 7pm happily as parents relaxed more / sometimes children pick up on parents emotions

Is a small white lie bad if parents nanny and child are happy with the outcome??

As I said in earlier post often children that have nannies will settle better for them if babysitting then parents

purplehouse Tue 09-Oct-12 12:55:15

It's a difficult age. If mine slept in the day when they were 2yo, they would then stay up until 11pm or later. It is easier to achieve not sleeping in the day when they are with mum/dad at home. I don't think they can insist that you forcibly keep the child awake but you can offer to encourage the child to stay awake.

MummytoMog Tue 09-Oct-12 13:03:20

My just three year old dropped her nap about six months ago. I don't stop her from sleeping if she falls asleep, but she is a total mare at bedtime if she does. I asked her CM to stop trying to force her to sleep in the afternoons - I understand that it's easier for them if all the kids nap at the same time, but I also pay them to look after my daughter whether she's asleep or not. They still tried to make her sleep and then complained because she got upset. We're not really using them any more, as the forced nap was the last straw on a strained relationship.

Bethnick Tue 09-Oct-12 14:31:55

BY LAW a nanny or any other child carer can not deny a child rest SLEEP food or drink when it is NEEDED!!!!!!!!! if the child is tired a power nap of 15 mins should be fine do not compromise your care of that child I had to explain this to a LOT of my parents and just "dropping" a nap is not always good people wean a child off bottols on to solids and potty train them I don't understand how people think ALL children can just drop a massive part of their day.

every child is different EVERY CHILD MATTERS.

madelineashton Tue 09-Oct-12 17:49:21

Yes Beth, I think that's worth remembering sometimes... it's every CHILD matters. Not every PARENT'S NEED FOR A GOOD NIGHT'S SLEEP matters!

Italiana Tue 09-Oct-12 18:41:42

Children cannot be forced to stay awake....a short sleep during the day does not prevent a child sleeping at night...there must be another reason (always is) look it up and if not sure ask to get advice from health visitor on how to deal with it

BigWitchLegsInWailyTights Tue 09-Oct-12 19:20:20

Yes it can Italiana. You can't make sweeping generalizations about ALL children. My DDs both would not sleep until about 9.30pm or if they had napped and this was for both, at around the age of just two.

When I made an effort to engage them in something interesting at their usual nap time, they perked up. At 7.30 they slept.

CelineMcBean Tue 09-Oct-12 19:45:08

Agree with the parents and others on this thread. My child stopped napping in the day around 2yo. Nanny would take him out in buggy and he would nap (never napped with us or the day he went to nursery) despite us repeatedly asking her not to. He would then be up until 10.30pm at earliest. It was an utter arse ache and made me miserable dealing with overtired child.

She would also not tell us if he had napped unless asked and he didn't need to be in the buggy. She just found it easier.

We decided to let the nanny go because we appeared to be suffering for her easier life. Problem solved.

<<btw I have a lot of time for nannies and would use another but I have no time for employees who fail to follow reasonable requests>>

Italiana Tue 09-Oct-12 19:46:12

Mine is not a sweeping statement at all but what I have learnt from professionals over the years...of course all children are different...have you ever tried keeping a sleepy child awake?
Do you not feel that an 11 hour day is very long for a young child to be kept awake and going without some rest?
Lets check some facts and come back

CelineMcBean Tue 09-Oct-12 19:48:18

And he really didn't need the sleep. Or the buggy but would nap in the car or buggy (as would I if rocked in a warm place during the day blush).

Yes every child matters and an over-tired, grizzly child for 4.5hrs in the evening with his parents is not in his best interest.

FamiliesShareGerms Tue 09-Oct-12 19:58:18

"a short sleep during the day does not prevent a child sleeping at night".

Yes, Italiana, it can. It did with both mine, and still does with DD (2.5) unless she is really really tired or poorly.

There's a difference between parents wanting "a good night's sleep" (madeline), and the whole family being kept awake with a grouchy toddler until 10pm because the afternoon nap means She Just Won't Go To Bed. For us, those evenings meant that I got nothing at all done because the only way to stop DD crying was to sit and cuddle her on my lap. So DH had to do absolutely everything and we could give little attention to DS (the normal routine is to put DD to bed then have 30-45 mins just with DS (6). I don't see how this is in anyone's best interest.

Even worse, we would get into a vicious circle, where a nap meant that DD would be up very late; she had to be prised out of bed to get to nursery the next day, so was well short of the 12 hours that she really needs every day; was consequently tired at nursery, so needed a nap; so wouldn't go to bed until very late... On one occasion when DD was still in a cot, we had to put her to bed at nearly 11pm and close the door because we were both falling over with sleep deprivation, and we just had to break the cycle. Again, this experience is in no-one's best interest.

WinkyWinkola Tue 09-Oct-12 20:00:32

A short sleep certainly stopped my 2 year olds from going to sleep at night until after 11pm. I once timed my dd - she had 3 mins sleep and that was her wide awake until 11pm that night.

catkind Tue 09-Oct-12 20:11:05

Can the child not have a rest by reading a quiet story with them or something instead of putting them down for a nap? My 2 yr old was generally awake for more than 11 hours of a day with no trouble. He'd have quiet times and rest and then be ready to run riot again. Napping did not increase his total amount of sleep, and certainly did not increase his overall wellbeing. You need to work with the parents on this one.
What we did at a similar point was agree with nursery that they wouldn't put him down for a nap, but let him sleep as long as he wanted if he dropped off or asked to sleep. He'd sleep at nursery maybe once a fortnight and was much happier all round. Could you come to a compromise like this with the parents?

Iggly Tue 09-Oct-12 20:34:41

Toddlers don't wake at night because they're getting too much day sleep IMO. Theyre still teething (molars), going through developmental leaps etc. restricting day sleep when they're tired just makes them bone exhausted so they crash out. Not a healthy way to sleep.

When there are bedtime battles however, then yes look at day sleep.

Sleep is so so important. Lack of sleep, chronic lack of sleep results in behavioural issues which might be written off as "terrible twos" etc. I've even read some literature which says it might be the cause of some behaviours which are mistaken for autism etc.

I've been through bedtime battles, broken sleep etc but ds has got through them and always reverts back to sleeping through with a nap. He's 3 and since starting preschool needs a nap more than ever.

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