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Free Ofsted 'Q&A' workshop for chilminders Sat 17 Nov

(30 Posts)
Italiana Sun 07-Oct-12 09:10:18

I have hired a venue and arranged for a free OFSTED 'Q&A' workshop for c/ms to have the opportunity to ask questions on inspections and any other matters that you feel need clarifying.

Ofsted's Divisional Manager for Early Years and Childcare has accepted the invitation to answer our questions for 1 1/2 hours and has suggested table discussions for the workshop

The event will take place on Saturday 17 November 10am-1pm
St Marys' Church Hall Church Street Twickenham TW1 3NJ

Please book your place: reply via NCMA Local Forum or via this forum

Travel: Twickenham main station is 10 mins walk from the venue, there are plenty of car parks close to the hall
More details about the agenda will be added to this post
If you are on Twitter please spread the word to your followers as well as using Facebook to let others know

Thank you and see you there

fraktion Tue 20-Nov-12 23:20:38

From OFSTED's POV it is less efficient. nick has given excellent numbers to illustrate that. From a CM's it's obviously very efficient as it save outsourcing. Which raises the question of whose efficient it is anyway!

There are some figures here. Six time as much to inspect a place provided by a CM.

If in a hypothetical world OFSTED were to hand back homebased childcare where would it go? I've suggested several times that they could cut their inspectors burden by a) knowing what they're doing when inspecting nannies so it takes around 30mins and b) allowing CMs to opt out of eg EYFS which takes a lot of time to inspect, although I appreciate that some wouldn't want to, and only measuring them against the requirements for the childcare register and not the early years one.

nannynick Tue 20-Nov-12 22:34:49

Concentrate is probably not the right word.
If Ofsted was to no longer be involved in regulation of childminders and registration of nannies, then I feel they would save money as they would not be having to do all the inspections, but the Government could still claim that a large amount of childcare in the UK was still regulated (as the number of childcare places being provided within the pre-school & nursery sectors would be a high number).

The majority of providers at the moment are childminders but that costs a lot to regulate. If Government wants to save money, which I think they do, then removing childminders and nannies from whom Ofsted regulate/register can reduce inspection costs a lot as there will be fewer providers to visit.

Sept 2012 Figures:
Places data is unknown/missing for some provider types. So taking the figures for where places are known, which is what Ofsted label as EYR Total

Childminders: 55,826 providing 282,125 places.
Childcare on Non-Domestic Premises: 25,705 providing 1,029,661 places.
Childcare on Domestic Premises: 142 providing 2466 places.

If they deregulated childminders, over a million childcare places would still fall under regulation but may cost them 1/3 of the amount it costs to do inspections now. That is, if it costs the same to inspect a childminder as it does to inspect a pre-school/nursery, which it might not. Certainly when I helped with an inspection of a pre-school (many years ago now), it took two mornings to do, where as I think a childminder inspection is meant to take max of 3 hours. I wonder how long is allocated for inspectors to inspect a nursery/pre-school these days?

poopnscoop Tue 20-Nov-12 21:59:47

The LAs all work differently... My LA (a London borough!) doesn't have a network... NCMA Local has started this evening in the borough... Coincidentally. I am not there wink

Re 'wearing different hats being less efficient'... This is a huge generalisation to make of 57 000 Early Years Providers. I for one wear all my hats most elegantly and dare I say, highly successfully grin ... As most successful small businesses need to do to run a sound business, no matter the industry.

fraktion Tue 20-Nov-12 19:52:07

I didn't mean lay people, although it would be a fascinating topic for a dissertation, and I certainly don't have the expertise for a solution. That's what academics are for grin My skills probably stop at a literature view and critiquing existing research. I don't have the background in management theory or sociology to actually do research.

I did a quick literature search on it actually. There wasn't anything more recent than 2007 which means the research was done before that. The DfE did work 10 years ago! The NCMA did one about 5 years ago saying they work etc but I can't see any research on sustainability following up on their introduction. It would take a full scale project to go into it but the outcomes could be fascinating.

A few hours might bring me up to speed on the status quo but research the way I meant it would take far longer and I'm already committed in that department!

Italiana Tue 20-Nov-12 18:42:47

When you have a few spare hours research how 152 LAs offer support via Networks...I would be delighted if you come up with a solution to the is a long story and would take an essay from me to explain the current situation

fraktion Mon 19-Nov-12 12:38:45

There are networks and peer support schemes...useless

But why? How can they be made better? What support is needed and who can provide it? There are contacts and structures in place - how can these be modified?

Networks IME don't function effectively but has anyone really, seriously researched why?. Peer support can be great but the influence is limited. We need more a cooperative model than an agency or a network controlled by the LA.

Italiana Mon 19-Nov-12 11:13:18

The things you mention already exist but are not effective because not all c/ms have been included especially in reference to c/minding networks
An agency will want my money and possibly my expertise to promote and achieve their targets but with huge terms and conditions
There are networks and peer support schemes...useless
The funding given to LAs and associations is not reaching providers because the recipients are not accountable...the govt does invest 7bn but where is it going?
The answer is not too hard to find

I am a one man band and I feel I am very effective too...
I wear all the '6 thinking hats (De Bono's book ..fascinating!!))
I know my job and how to run my business on top of putting children first not costs...unfortunately many c/ms have not a clue how to run a childminding business and an agency is their salvation thinking the administration will be done by what cost to independence and earning a living?

This will not happen as paperwork for evidence of practice will increase
they also delude themselves that under an agency there will be no more inspections...wrong, if this was the case quality would be buried for ever and we would return to 35 years ago when c/minding was done for pin money!!!

A sad day I do not want to see come back

fraktion Mon 19-Nov-12 10:14:31

CMs are a classic example of how one person wearing many hats is less efficient.

I hesitate to bring up the French system again but CMs in a crèche familiale (basically a very well supported network) don't have to wear each and every single one of those hats and their workload is less for it. A similar system of CMs banding together could work well - one person could take on advertising for the network and direct enquiries to those with spaces, one person could share their SEN expertise and another their EAL expertise, one could take on CPD for the network as many places do in house training of there's a sufficient number. It could work really well. I'm aware that's sailing dangerously close to an agency model but each CM would retain individual responsibility for their own setting and practice. They would need to avail themselves if the opportunities in the network.

If you see it like that nurseries are clearly more cost effective. Unfortunately the trade off is individualised care but when you're targeting resources that is something intangible.

Italiana Mon 19-Nov-12 09:45:58

The minutes (not really minutes but feedback) from this event have been posted by Laura Henry, the training consultant on Twitter via her blog so I hope this is going to get this important information shared by as many c/ms as possible.
I had to add a very important question which was missed about self variations....hope you can access it and find it useful
Wanted to put this info on NCMA Local this morning but looks like it is 'out of action'...can anyone confirm?

Fraktion I do see your point but c/ms are managers and financial directors, as well as managing our training, CPD, plan for each child and do records (in some nurseries this is done by central office and records can be done by a variety of practitioners not just the key person), we are the SENCO etc etc etc the setting may be smaller but it should not be seen simply by bigger saves money...well it does maybe
Childminding must remain a vital form of education and care preferred by many parents

I feel we have been dragging behind for years (I used to run my own preschool so can compare from experience)
some LAs forgot us and representing association may have reaised our perceived profile but it is not enough and probably getting ready to be our agency right is really down to us now to get our voice heard

Look at the feedback as some form of 'deregulation' is coming.
The Ofsted manager touched on that, it was her perception but I can see that happening in the future....suddenly 2 and 2 make a perfect 10!!

fraktion Mon 19-Nov-12 08:37:44

Depends what you mean by concentrate on I suppose.

As in give support to? It's more efficient from OFSTED's POV to target their resources to a 60 place setting than a 6 place one. The structure means that OFSTED can meet with managers and managers feed down. So a meeting with nursery managers is 10 times more effective in terms of impact on children than meeting the same number of CMs.

OFSTED produce a report themselves which show the number of places as well as providers.

Italiana Sun 18-Nov-12 22:52:22

Nannynick thanks for posting on NCMA Local about the number of providers
As said in the minutes the Ofsted manager said there are 96,000 providers 57,000 being c/ms...which means we are the majority

She did not break this by the number of places not sure why you say they concentrate on that sector as they offer more places
of course they do, they are larger groups and why does Ofsted concentrate on those rather than c/ms?
Not sure what your message is supposed to be? and as a nanny you fall into our category...low ratio which is best for the age of our children

Italiana Sun 18-Nov-12 17:37:06

A very well known training consultant is putting them somewhere accessible but not told where yet...once I know I will let you know
Yes she spoke for 3 hours so the minutes were extensive typed its 5 pages.
I think it would take hours to summarise...I am sure people can send me their email and I can forward but I will come back

nannynick Sun 18-Nov-12 16:21:55

18 pages of minutes - that's a lot. Will you be putting a summary on here for those of us who were unable to attend?

Italiana Sat 17-Nov-12 18:23:37

I am getting many messages form c/ms saying it was excellent...I am typing 18 pages of minutes, my index hurts!!! but many are asking for feedback so worth the throbbing pain.

Main message read EYFS and Ofsted publications but I also think manager did not seem in agreement with some bits in framework but she was really patient and spoke for hours answered so many questions, she also said she would come back if asked so I may do that in future if needed
Mr Anchovy attended and we welcomed his contributions too, hope he feedbacks his assessment on the session

fraktion Sat 17-Nov-12 16:52:21

Oh because I'd move to get my hands on OFSTED is all and I think a lot if the concerns CMs have are common across the EY sector. I know what's been says to other professionals on the topics but it would be interesting for the sake of consistency.

Sadly it's returning to normality post-holiday... <glares at 2 suitcases that need unpacking and the fruitcake my mother foisted on me>

HSMM Sat 17-Nov-12 12:30:05

In between dancing engagements with DD and hoping it's all going well Italiana.

Italiana Sat 17-Nov-12 06:54:11

Well have a good flight and a good holiday!!!
Why nosy about such a boring subject like inspections?

No... in truth many are very grateful for the opportunity to get a few things cleared up but also we have a debate afterwards with c/ms related topics and that is what, for me at least, is the important bit ...hope no one gets cross

fraktion Sat 17-Nov-12 00:53:21

If I wasn't catching a flight from Heathrow at midday I would have loved to come to this (just to be nosy, not because I'm a CM) . Good luck!

Italiana Fri 16-Nov-12 13:50:48

Just spoken to a preschool manager who is attending tomorrow and while chatting away she calmly said she is also an Ofsted inspector...double whammy!!!
We will be informed on how to prepare and the how we are inspected...should be great!
She mentioned a couple of things that happen at inspection and I am so grateful she is going to be telling us so no surprises on the day

Italiana Mon 12-Nov-12 21:05:20

What has Twickenham done to you? can I put it right???

lechatnoir Mon 12-Nov-12 20:08:15

I would have been very interested in attending if it wasn't in Twickenham!

Italiana Mon 12-Nov-12 15:48:15

I will try to feedback as much as I can

minderjinx Mon 12-Nov-12 14:56:36

I'm afraid I can't be there due to a longstanding family commitment, but I hope it goes well and will be interested to hear any news or developments.

HSMM Mon 12-Nov-12 14:20:39

Hope it all goes well Italiana.

Italiana Mon 12-Nov-12 08:47:40

Sorry forgot to add that the debate will also include childminding Networks

It is clear by the discussions in this forum that each LA has its own kind of Network, if at all, so we want to discuss this as many EY staff will be there and see where they are in terms of future planning

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