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Can I be a part time self employed nanny?

(27 Posts)
npg1 Fri 13-Apr-12 11:54:28

Hi. I am considering taking a position 2 days a week, still not sure if im going to register as a CM or be her nanny in her home.

My question is I also work in a nursery and my employer isnt PAYE registered and has told me I should register as self employed to pay my NI contributions. If I register as self employed will this work for both jobs?

Thanks

MrAnchovy Fri 13-Apr-12 12:41:18

It is unlikely that you could be self employed in either the nanny or the nursery job.

If you have ever earnt more than £102pw in the nursery job your employer is breaking the law sad

annh Fri 13-Apr-12 21:27:30

When you say "employer" do you mean the nursery? It's shocking if they are not paying your tax and NI for you. If you are working regular days in both jobs then you can't generally be self-employed. You cpuld possibly be self-employed in your nanny job if you were working for a number of different families on different days and could choose whether or not to work for any of them on a particular day but if doesn't sound as if this is what you have in mind.

McPhee Fri 13-Apr-12 21:28:57

You can't be self employed as a nanny.

npg1 Fri 13-Apr-12 22:07:35

Its very awkward, I currently work in a nursery, ok it is very small, only 18 children max at one time. I have been there for nearly 2 years. My employer has NEVER paid NI contributions. I dont earn enough to pay tax. At the start it was fine and I was only working 9 hours a week but now im doing 25 hours a week, term time only and get £178 per week.

The other 2 members of staff have had to go self employed, think one lady did have problems because they said she isnt self employed and thats how I see it, im employed!

My problem is we would like a baby in the near future and I dont know where I stand on mat pay as she wont pay. I did speak to someone from maternity allowance and they said if I earn over x amount each week I would get it as its my employers fault that NI hasnt been paid and not my fault......

Any advice would be great. I did find a number to ring on the HMRC site to discuss thes matters but now cant find it!

McPhee Fri 13-Apr-12 22:11:57

It sounds to me like your employer is on very shaky ground confused

Hopefully Nick will come along in a minute, he's really good at this stuff.

nannynick Fri 13-Apr-12 22:26:35

£178 per week is above the LEL, so your employer is legally obliged to operate PAYE. See HMRC: PAYE Basics Based on 25 hour week at £178 gross per week, MrAnchovy's PAYE Calculator calculates that there is Employee NI, Employee Income Tax and Employers NI due.

It may be worth calling the Pay and Rights helpline - I'm not sure if they deal with this situation but if they don't then they may be able to direct you to a helpline that does.

If you are not an employee then you can't get SMP. As a self employed person you could claim Statutory Maternity Allowance, if you meet the eligibility requirements.

npg1 Fri 13-Apr-12 22:33:03

God, thank you. I was going to ring the tax evasion helpline asap to ask them for advice. Obviously im only working 39 hours of the year so will this effect me?

nannynick Fri 13-Apr-12 22:39:24

I don't think it makes a difference, as I think it's ANY WEEK in which you are paid at or above the LEL that triggers the registering to operate PAYE requirement. MrAnchovy may be able to confirm the situation - he's Excellent at this stuff.

npg1 Fri 13-Apr-12 22:49:26

Ok thanks. I did the calculator and its only £20 approx ontop for Ni and tax, how mad is that? Im seriously considering leaving! Dont get any sick pay, work til about 4.30pm but only get paid til 4pm, arghh its just all wrong and I dont know how she gets away wih it, how can she get away with not being PAYE registered?

Dozer Sun 15-Apr-12 19:34:59

That is a disgrace and bet if parents using the nursery knew they'd be v pissed off! How unfair to everyone, including you.

cheekyjackrussell Tue 17-Apr-12 22:23:59

i am about to offer someone 2 days a week to 'mind' my children, but she wants to come and do it from my house? she has good refs and has told me that she is registered as self employed so i was not expecting to have to pay her tax and NI. Is this legal or am i obliged to pay her tax and NI, she is expecting holiday pay which i have agreed to as i would pay the nursery when they are shut anyway?

nannynick Tue 17-Apr-12 23:01:27

She is expecting holiday pay. You are expecting her to turn up 2 days a week and not just say she's not coming, or will do 2 other days that week?
Sounds like they are probably an employee to me.

An Employment status officer at the tax office may look at the person's overall work, so what they do the rest of the week.

If in any doubt you should ring your local tax office and make an Employment Status Enquiry. You will get a case number and a written decision which is specific to this individual person.

In my view it would not be common for a nanny to be self employed working set days, set hours. As the person is already self employed (for other work) then you know they have another job, so in my view you should operate PAYE regardless of the amount you are paying - you don't say how much, but for 2 days it may be over the LEL anyway.

nannynick Tue 17-Apr-12 23:04:38

cheekyjackrussell - just had a thought, is the person already a registered childminder, providing care from their home other days? Not sure if it would make a difference but it might be useful to know should anyone know if it does make any difference.

MrAnchovy Wed 18-Apr-12 00:52:14

Not sure if it would make a difference but it might be useful to know should anyone know if it does make any difference.

It does make some difference as the worker would clearly be established as a childcare business, however in this case it is likely that the mutual obligation to provide work/turn up for work each week, the holiday pay and other factors will add up to employment. Anything I or anyone else says on this forum is irrelevant, as Nick says you need HMRC to rule on it.

An employer's knowledge of an employee's self employed status makes no difference to whether they operate PAYE or not.

RnB Wed 18-Apr-12 02:48:09

Nick, if I was to have a nanny for 6 hrs a week (set days, 3 hrs per day) @ £12/hr is it possible to do this on a self-employed basis? For example if they are self employed already?

Fraktal Wed 18-Apr-12 07:26:43

Generally, no. If you expect them to turn up at set times, do what you say (within reason) and they can't send someone else those would be key markers of employed status.

nannynick Wed 18-Apr-12 07:28:27

RnB in my view you should operate PAYE whenever you regard them as an employee... someone you want to be able to tell what to do, when to do it. If you are deciding those days, those hours, it's a job isn't it?

As MrAnchovy says, it does not matter what he or I say... you need to get a decision from HMRC in these cases.

RnB Wed 18-Apr-12 10:34:22

Thanks Fraktal and Nick smile

nannynick Wed 18-Apr-12 10:37:37

RnB - At that pay rate, looks like Employers NI of around £10 per week, so not a huge amount. See MrAnchovy's PAYE Calculator - it's Great!
Remember to agree a GROSS salary, not NET as the nanny may have other income.

MrAnchovy Wed 18-Apr-12 11:02:13

Oops, that wasn't what I meant to say at all.

An employer's knowledge of an employee's self employed status in some other work makes no difference to whether they operate PAYE for their employment or not.

6 hours a week at £12ph is £72pw so no NI to pay, but the employee will very likely be on the BR tax code so will have £14.40 tax deducted each week.

nannynick Wed 18-Apr-12 17:35:43

Opps, did I miscalculate... think I was thinking 6 hours per day, 3 days per week. Sorry. <note to self, read, read and read again before answering>

cheekyjackrussell Mon 23-Apr-12 11:41:58

thanks guys for your help, yes she charges £8 per hour so likely at £144 per week that she wouldn't pay tax and NI so it would just be a paper exercise for me, but i would be liable for stat mat and SSP too, as well as insurance, seems like a lot of effort for just 2 days a week!
Now then, could i still use my childcare vouchers to pay her? provided she is ofsted registered, even though she is an 'employee'?

nannynick Mon 23-Apr-12 12:16:14

Yes, as long as she is Ofsted registered. The voucher provider will need to see evidence of registration.

cheekyjackrussell Mon 23-Apr-12 20:00:49

thanks Nick

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