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Who is giving whom notice and does it matter?

(22 Posts)
monkeymiss Thu 23-Jun-11 23:38:38

Unfortunately things have come to an end with my DD's CM.

(as per previous thread here)

I was going to give CM written notice but I didn't as I wanted to try one last time to sort things out. Meanwhile CM has suggested (via text) that it is probably best to terminate our agreement. I have said (via text) that I will post her notice tonight.

But then, thinking further, I don't think I am giving CM her notice. It's more like CM is finishing things. Or is it more like by mutual agreement? I'm not sure how this would/should affect how we bring things to an end, both in terms of when DD stops going and re payment.

It doesn't seem fair to just stop DD suddenly (she's 3), but it would be awkward to keep sending her through the notice period (4 weeks both sides).

I was thinking that I would send a letter confirming that our contract has come to an end as of today by mutual agreement.

EightiesChick Thu 23-Jun-11 23:49:53

Well, do you have a choice, in the sense that surely it will take time to find an alternative? She will have to be there for a bit.

It might actually be better to manage now that you both know where you stand.

Letter is a good idea I think. I'd also state in it 'This means that my last payment of X will be on Y' or whatever the situation is as you understand it 'and unless you inform me otherwise within X days will assume that you agree'. Just to clarify exactly what both of you thinks the payment situation is.

monkeymiss Thu 23-Jun-11 23:59:49

I do have a choice as I'm on ML so I simply don't send her.

But should she receive notice pay if I don't send her?

MilaMae Fri 24-Jun-11 00:00:06

You're dithering and I don't think you're being fair to either.

I'm an Outstanding childminder with a degree in early years and several years teaching experience.My mindees watch a small amount of TV as did my kids.

A childminder is not the same as a nursery.There is only one member of staff who has to do everything EYFS,plan activities,clear up said activities,prepare food,clear up said food,eat own food,clear up accidents,messy play,read stories etc,etc,etc........We don't get breaks and we do 50 odd different jobs because we enjoy it.We're not super human and the odd bit of Cbeebies(aside from causing no harm what so ever) enables one to clear up a mornings carnage and catch ones breath.

Under 5s are tiny children,they need to flop at times and yes snuggling up on the sofa with a book is the ideal and a daily activity but it's not always possible .Parents choose childminders for the home environment.You can't have your cake and eat it.A childminder is not a nursery setting ie it doesn't have numerous members of staff ensuring children are permanently engaged in activities.As a mother I personally wouldn't have wanted this for my dc anyhow.

A childminder has a duty of care for all her charges ie school age children are often exhausted after school and good for nothing other than an hour of CBBC.

Most younger siblings will be exposed to TV watched by older siblings in reality anyway.

I'm not sure what you want(and I don't think you do)but I think you need to have a long hard think overnight and work out your priorities for childcare then act accordingly and stick to it.

MilaMae Fri 24-Jun-11 00:01:40

And yes you do need to pay notice pay,it was your choice to terminate.

monkeymiss Fri 24-Jun-11 00:08:35

MilaMae, I think you've misunderstood. I'm not dithering. The contract has terminated. My link to the previous discussion is irrelevant really as there were other issues that came to the fore.

I haven't chosen to terminate. I wanted to sort things out but CM thinks it is best to terminate our contract.

MilaMae Fri 24-Jun-11 00:13:32

You said "I am giving the childminder notice" so you'll have to pay. Sorry if I sound blunt but you sound as if you just want to smooth things over so you don't have to pay.

Seriously your child's welfare is the most important,you need to focus on what you value the most and stick with it.

monkeymiss Fri 24-Jun-11 00:21:41

I haven't given her notice. And CM is the one who has suggested termination (although I considered it privately first). I have agreed to terminate. I said I will send her notice but since saying that to her (by text, which does not count as formal notice in my books) I think that is the wrong way round.

That is the point of this post.

HSMM Fri 24-Jun-11 07:34:49

You/CM have to give notice as in your contract. I would have to give a parent 4 weeks notice and/or they would have to give me 4 weeks notice. If they chose not to send their child during those 4 weeks, then they would still have to pay them.

You can decide between you whether notice was given by the CM in a text, or whether your letter is the official version. You can also hopefully work together to find the best solution for preparing your DD for the change.

ElizabethDarcy Fri 24-Jun-11 07:35:51

It doesn't matter if you as the parent, or the CM actually give the written notice, the notice period on the contract will stand. Usually 4 weeks, check your contract.

Whether you send your child to her during this time, or not, the fees are still payable during this time/if you paid a deposit and it's refundable against the last month of care (this is what I do), this would come into play.

It's a shame you both have thought of termination... in my opinion it's always best to chat (face to face... not via email/text/phone), and be frank with each other. I have an open door policy in my CM business. So there are no misunderstandings and we all know where we stand.

Wishing you all the best.

KatyMac Fri 24-Jun-11 07:46:32

Who every gives notice the notice period stands unless you negotiate it out

There is normally no advantage to the childminder to reduce it unless they have someone else ready to start

You always have the option to pay & not send your child

altinkum Fri 24-Jun-11 09:47:19

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

altinkum Fri 24-Jun-11 09:52:03

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

altinkum Fri 24-Jun-11 09:52:33

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MilaMae Fri 24-Jun-11 10:24:04

I have outstanding communication,strangely it seriously isn't an issue with my mums.In fact one of mine requested that once her child started school she be allowed some TV time after school.I continuously provide activities instead but they're rejected due to exhaustion.I don't believe in forcing activities on children knackered after a full day at school,not sure of the benefit to be frank.

I have very few children(my choice for quality of care) so no need to reduce or for an assistant(which I couldn't afford due to numbers),I'm used to teaching classes of 30 anyhow.

I think a little perspective is needed here.

My 3 year old had an hour role play and wooden Brio set(strict no TV before school policy) before the school run.We then walked to and from a music group.We then returned home and had story time(Eric Carle themed for an afternoon project).Now before setting out lunch I needed to clear up the morning before school activities as we'd been out all morning so my mindee watched Balamory. Now I could stop going to the music group in order to clear up but actually I think both music and Balamory have their place.

We then have lunch after which we embarked on our Eric Carle painting/printing project.Whilst I cleared up my mindee did some button boards and fuzzy felt.She also did a drawing activity I needed her to do for EYFS.We then did the school run(walking) and returned with the 7 year olds for snack and Scooby Doo et al which they look forward to all day.My 3 year old played with the role play again in the play room and drifted in and out.

As far as I can see a jam packed quality day which resulted in a very happy and tired 3 year old.

Altkinum I think you need to set up your own practise and get Outstanding yourself before you lecture me on how to run my setting.hmm

ChitChattingagain Fri 24-Jun-11 10:38:56

In your letter include "As per your txt of .... the contract between Monkeymiss and CM''s name is being brought to an end. As per the contract, taking the notice period into account [insert DD's name]'s last day will be X and the final payment to you will be made on Y".

Did you pay a deposit as well as the first month in advance? If so then then the deposit would be used in lieu of the final payment. The date of notice could be the date she sent the txt, not your letter - dependant on how the contract is worded. If it just says notice, then it is the date of the txt. If it says 'notice in writing' then your letter.

altinkum Fri 24-Jun-11 11:03:06

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

minderjinx Fri 24-Jun-11 11:28:28

Monkeymiss - ignoring for a minute the debate about who should watch TV and when, I don't think your CM ha given notice - she has SUGGESTED (and then only in a text, not a proper written proposal), that "it might be best to terminate". I read that as her inviting you to terminate the contract if you are not happy with the service she is able to offer - no mention of her withdrawing the service or of her waiving her right to paid notice.

Then according to your own words you agreed that you would terminate. I can't see anything in your post to justify withdrawing your child immediately or breaching your contract (even if it would be relatively easy for you to pick up the reins since you are not working).

MilaMae Fri 24-Jun-11 13:11:08

I agree with Minder.

Op all I'm trying to say is don't cut off your nose to spite your face. If your child is happy and you're happy with her care bar TV you're giving up a lot.

All settings vary. I run a very small setting,part time with few children during the day.Not sure I get altkin's logic of taking on lots more children in a setting that is only a reg sized house in order to be able to hire a minimum wage assistant.Just so I don't switch the TV on during chill out/lunch preparation time hmm.My kids gain a lot with my small numbers and to be frank the odd half an hour of TV in a 10 hour day imvho isn't worth spreading a highly experienced professional thinly.It also doesn't solve the after school children either.

Settings don't just need to cater for 1 child but all children.

Re the activity,maybe your cm takes other children to said activity,why should they miss out?

I think you need to have a chat with your CM and listen to her.Most childminders I know work a very tiring long day and the children in our care are of the utmost importance.As I said on your other thread we do 100s of different jobs in a day that is often without breaks.Maybe your cm was a little hurt that this wasn't being acknowledged.Yes you shouldn't send your child to a bad cm but I personally don't think a bit of TV and taking your child to an activity you want to do(maybe she wasn't aware) does not a bad CM make.

nervatious Fri 24-Jun-11 13:39:21

This all sounds very handbags to me. You both have got all offended and neither of you want to lose face. Sounds like a permanent breakdown of the relationship but tbh I would say it's OP who has pushed it to this point, (withdrawing child the night before for no good reason apart from your feeling 'uncomfortable' because of a conversation- this would really offend a cm, and confuse the child) so therefore OP is terminating the contract.

Notice periods usually stand for both sides so you won't be able to handbag your way out of paying unfortunately.

Tanith Fri 24-Jun-11 14:48:30

A few handbags flying around here, too!

Altinkum, I think you're completely out of order in what you've said to MilaMae. TV should be discussed when contracts are signed if it's seriously an issue for a parent. I have had a child ask me if she could watch a TV programme while an OFSTED inspection was in progress. I was still graded outstanding.

TV is a resource just like any other. It is not, unless you subscribe to the Steiner philosophy, a terrible demon waiting to ensnare small children!

monkeymiss Fri 24-Jun-11 21:45:03

Thanks to ElizabethDarcy who has reminded of the importance of face to face communication! Between KatyMac's posting and now, CM and I have agreed to talk things through before deciding how to proceed.

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