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holiday for after school nanny

(30 Posts)
mrshubbard Mon 03-Jan-11 18:47:47

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mrshubbard Mon 03-Jan-11 19:15:58

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

nannynick Mon 03-Jan-11 19:25:42

>Her holidays are 28 days a year, including bank holidays.

Sounds reasonable. A day being 3 hours in this case, as she works 3 hours a day.

>We've come to the end of the year and she's had 52 days off fully paid.

That's presumably 52 x 3 hours? So far exceeds the minimum entitlement and the amount stated in the contract.

>She asked for 8 of these (in term time) and was given them all.

You didn't have to give them at all. Employers can fully dictate when an employee takes holiday. However as a nice employer, you have tried to meet her wishes where possible.

>She thinks we owe her holiday pay as she didn't get to decide what days she took

She is wrong. ACAS will tell her that.
ACAS: Holiday Advice Leaflet (PDF) "An employer can require a worker to take all or any of the leave to which a worker is entitled at specific times, provided that the worker is given prior
notice."

I suspect it's a communication issue. When you went away on holiday yourself you may not have made it clear that that time would be considered to be part of her holiday entitlement.

Can you show her clearly that she has had 52 days off in the past year... thus had had more than her entitlement of 28 days.

mrshubbard Mon 03-Jan-11 19:57:16

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

nannynick Mon 03-Jan-11 21:17:37

>do you think it's ok to ask for her to make up the hours that she will given extra to the holidays

No. The holiday year runs from start date to 1 year after start date. It then repeats. No provision is usually provided for carrying over holiday, so therefore the reverse should apply.

If a parent decides to not require a nanny to work for a period longer than the nannies holiday entitlement that year... the parent pays usual wage. It is your choice to go away and not still have your nanny do some kind of work for you during that time.

mrshubbard Mon 03-Jan-11 21:35:38

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

nannynick Mon 03-Jan-11 21:40:20

I don't think I am understanding you.

>i really don't want to pay the extra next year

What extra?
You can dictate when your employee takes holiday. So if they apply to take holiday and it is not convenient, then you can deny them permission.

If you don't need your employee to work some weeks through no fault of the employee, then you pay. It's either put down as part of annual leave, or it's paid as per a normal working day. You could ask your nanny to come to your home even if you are not there... to do things around the home like sorting out the toybox.

mranchovy Mon 03-Jan-11 22:14:55

What an unfortunate misunderstanding. I hope that she is being genuine and not just trying it on - are you saying that she earned money working for other people when she was paid by you to be on holiday, and now wants you to pay her again - paid 3 times over?

You need to make things much clearer going forwards. Talk through the changes you need to make to your contract so that she must take all her holiday during the university holidays.

There is no automatic right to holiday pay if holiday is not taken (but check if your contract says anything about this).

On the other hand, I think Nick is looking at this a bit too far on one side - note the phrase "provided that the worker is given prior notice". From what you say, you have not clearly and specifically given her notice that any particular days were to be taken as holiday last year - next year, make that clear.

mranchovy Mon 03-Jan-11 22:36:52

Again Nick, "You can dictate when your employee takes holiday. So if they apply to take holiday and it is not convenient, then you can deny them permission." is a bit strong - at the very least, if this comes as a surprise to the employee they are going to be extremely and rightfully pissed off.

As a reasonable employer, you should put any fixed restrictions on annual leave in the contract (or in a business context with more employees, a separate policy). Any variable restrictions which are going to make it inconvenient at a particular time should be notified in advance, don't leave it to them to guess what dates are and are not going to be OK. This is particularly true for a part time arrangement, where the employee may have to juggle a number of different jobs to get a decent holiday.

mrshubbard Mon 03-Jan-11 22:37:51

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PinkChick Mon 03-Jan-11 23:07:18

you have given her 24 EXTRA days holiday FULLY PAID and at this time she was also being paid to work for someone else!!??shes either VERY confused or VERY sneaky..you need to sit down with it all written down in from of you, including notes on convos you had reg this issue..i dont know how she has the nerve!

mrshubbard Mon 03-Jan-11 23:17:21

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

nannynick Tue 04-Jan-11 06:03:06

If she isn't working 3 hours each day, then calculate holiday entitlement in hours.
Not sure that helps but it may make things clearer if say she wanted holiday on a day when she would be working a longer day. On longer days she would build up more holiday entitlement, as say working a 9 hour day is like working 3 x 3 hour days.

mrshubbard Tue 04-Jan-11 07:35:40

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GoldFrakkincenseAndMyrrh Tue 04-Jan-11 08:14:51

What does your contact say her working times are? 3 hours a day every day every week?

What is the provision for overtime? By agreement, prior arrangement, limited to school holidays?

What's the division of holiday specified in the contract? Does it say outright that she gets Bank holidays plus 2 weeks your choice and 2 weeks hers? Has she had her 2 weeks choice? Does it say any holiday over and above chosen by the employer is paid in full?

It may be better to rewrite/rephrase to put the holiday in terms of hours, limit it to Uni holidays and say it's now by mutual agreement.

The worst case scenario is you would need to pay her 2 days holiday, if the contact says she has 2 weeks (10 days) choice and she's only chosen 8 of those.

mrshubbard Tue 04-Jan-11 09:14:13

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GoldFrakkincenseAndMyrrh Tue 04-Jan-11 09:21:58

When you rewrite make sure you don't put 20 days plus bank hols but 5.6 weeks!

The extra hours are clearly overtime then, so you don't need to worry about calculating the exact number of hours as someone who works after school AND FT in the holidays would.

mranchovy Tue 04-Jan-11 10:58:23

No reason not to leave holiday in the contract as 20 days plus bank holidays in this case IMHO.

This will of course be 5.8 weeks in 2011 and 2012 due to the extra bank holidays for Royal celebrations.

GoldFrakkincenseAndMyrrh Tue 04-Jan-11 12:36:39

<stage whisper: which is why if the employer's rewriting the contract they may as well change it to say 5.6, given that nanny is getting more than the standard holiday allowance anyway>

Personally I'd rather set out the holiday in a clear way that doesn't change from year to year, even more so for PT workers (which doesn't seem to apply here) - I'd rather be tight in the contract and more relaxed when push comes to shove than the other way around and give the nature of the OP's employer it might be best to hedge bets. I certainly won't be writing into my nanny's contract the full amount of holiday I theoretically get because my university don't seem to subscribe to the notion of teaching terms for teaching staff and clearly don't care about public holidays.

<still bitter about having to go in yesterday>

Blondeshavemorefun Tue 04-Jan-11 12:43:50

if the nanny is given 28days holidays a year and had 52 days paid then she is almost getting double her paid holidays

you should have added a bit to your contract stating holidays can only be taken when yours are - ie you get 100% control of the dates

personally i wouldnt agree to that, but i do know nannie who are happy with this, but get every school holidays off but NEVER ask/take holidays off during term time

mrshubbard Tue 04-Jan-11 20:30:56

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

nannynick Tue 04-Jan-11 20:51:33

>But the phone went
If in a meeting, why answer the phone?

>she left while i was on it
Why would she leave if it wasn't near her usual time to leave and you hadn't given indication that she was no longer required?

>now she owes me 1/2 an hour

The relationship with a nanny involves a lot of give and take on both sides. Does leaving 1/2 an hour early (with your permission) then mean she has to owe you that later? (Note: in this case it isn't clear that she did have permission to leave.)

StarExpat Tue 04-Jan-11 21:21:06

I'm missing something I think.

You paid her for more holidays than for which she is entitled.

You owe her nothing.

Yeah, put it in your contract that you have control over the days she takes off. But she's taking the mick. You don't have to pay her any extra.

mrshubbard Tue 04-Jan-11 23:31:19

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mrshubbard Wed 05-Jan-11 18:32:30

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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