Students denied access to labour room

[hunkermunker]

Might be a problem in the future, don't you think?

[wishingchair]

Absolutely. I have no problems with students and no problem with male midwives/doctors/consultants either. Although I did put in my birth plan that I would only want one student to be present ... didn't want my room to become a makeshift lecture theatre!

I think this is really sad. And then we complain that our maternity wards are understaffed. Shame on us!

[jampots]

I had 2 student nurses in when I was in labour - and they stayed with me until dd was born by em c/s at least 2 shifts later they apparently only get about 1 or 2 windows of opportunity to see a baby being born and were lovely. One was called Avril.

[CarolinaMoon]

that's a bit depressing. I have to say I was a bit put off beforehand by the thought of students cos I imagined it would be half-a-dozen of them trailing round with a consultant cracking golf jokes, like you see in TV hosp dramas.

The reality is v diff tho and not at all a problem IME. I actually liked having a student there because the doctor/MW will explain a lot to the student that you prob wdn't get to hear otherwise.

What was the woman quoted in that last para on about?

[Ladymuck]

I do remember one team of students present when I was having an anternatal check-up. Consultant asked if one of the students could examine me, and asked her to present her findings. Heard her talk about "extended abdomen, linea nigra indicating possible pregnancy". I was 39 weeks pg, and you didn't need to see my linea nigra to make that assessment.

Must agree, its the fact that the students seem to travel in teams of 3 or 4 that is most offputting. At another gynae appointment I went in to find 5 people on the other side of the desk - the rooms are very small in the first place, so this was all a bit suffocating. OTOH you do find out an awful lot about your condition and possible treatments as your consultation turns into a tutorial.

[SoupDragon]

I said "no students" on my boirthplan because I'd had a bad experience once when a doctor marched in with a band of 4 or so students without asking. He was there to examine my breasts and therefore I was topless and it was just humiliating to have them waltz in like that.

I did have a student obstetrician (male) do one of my antenatal appontments but was forewarned/asked permission and it didn't involve anything other than baring my bump

[fishfinger]

I had a male trainee doctor( i rememebr saying to her " does he look like he played Rugby? "if so NOT"?


lloked like a startled rabbit in the head lights

[SoupDragon]

Oh Fishy, check your dishwasher thread.

[kid]

I always allow students to sit in during Drs appts.
When I was in labour, I was asked if I minded students observing. There ended up being 4 of them (all male) but I was a bit pre-occupied to worry about them TBH!

[PrettyCandles]

I, too, have had experiences of a consultation suddenly turning into a tutorial - or, worse, a fully-fledged lecture. I once had 12 students examining my ankles, discussing my posture, my shoes, my walking - very daunting at the age of 14! I've never refused to have a student as an observer, or even as a verbal participant, but, as a woman giving birth I would be extremely nervous about having a student actually doing a procedure. I know they need to learn somehow, but I don't know how to get over that problem. I've heard others praise the students who attended their labours, because the support the students gave was better and more constant than that given by the over-worked qualified staff. I think I would feel differently if, at either of my birthings, the student present had actually come to 'my' end and related to me, rather than just watched the birth.

[suedonim]

I've had student dr's and mw's at three out of four of my pg's. With no1 I had a whole posse of students looking at my POP baby. It wasn't a great experience as I was more-or-less ignored but this was back in the 70's when you didn't question a dr's decisions. I also had a student mw when ds1 was born. With dd1 I agreed to a student mw doing a VE to assess the cervix and then another student helped with the birth of dd2.

Ime, they are lovely, all fresh-faced and eager, and incredibly grateful to you. I overheard the student I had with ds1 telling another student about how beautiful 'her' baby was and the student with dd2 sobbed her heart out afterwards.

[sparklymieow]

I had a male trainee midwife examine me when I was pregnant with DS because he needed to know what a breech baby felt like.
Also had students in with me when I had DD1 because she was a premamture birth,

[meggymoo]

Message withdrawn

[meggymoo]

Message withdrawn

[docincognito]

when i did my obstetric training (in the mid-80s) we had to see/ assist at 20 "normal" deliveries. We were always competing with the student midwives for the deliveries and usually had to wait all night to get one (after student MWs had gone home). It was unheard of to get a daytime delivery as MW in charge would always allocate to MWs first. As I had 2 months in this specialty, we spent a good proportion of the time up all night then in lectures all the next day. It was one of the most exhausting and miserable parts of my training. The actual births I remember were amazing (I remember one father bringing me and the staff MW huge bunches of flowers after the delivery), but nothing would at that time have induced me to go into obstetrics as a career. I'm not surprised that recruitment is so bad if things have got so much worse .

[Kittypickle]

I had a student doctor present when I had DD from the medical school that I was on a secondment from - which meant she had some of my colleagues as lecturers. It was fine to start off with but she really didn't know when to shut up when things went wrong - she was still going on when I ended up in theatre for an emergency section and I remember wishing that she would just go and leave me alone.

[Groggymama]

i work in a medical school and wouldve been slightly embarrassed for the students to see me in another position rather than over the office counter! on the other hand there were about 10 people in the room already so why not, we need experienced doctors.

[mears]

I think that one of the reasons why medical staff are not going into obsetrics and gynaecology as a career is the level of litigation TBH. I hear our own consultants complaining about the pressures now. Experience in the labour wards is a bit of a red herring IMO.

[jambo1707]

No probs for me these guys need to learn sometime

[jessicasmummy]

i honestly cant remember if i had a student present or not, i remember being asked if it was ok, and i said yeah but what happened after that i have no idea!

[Chandra]

I didn't have any student present at birth, but there was astudent midwife coming with my midwife in the visits afterwards. The only thing I didn't want her to check was my episiotomy stitches, as we both were students at the same Uni and used the same coffesho (at the same times) I felt a bit akward at that

[goldenoldie]

I don't fancy an audience thank you, but I am happy to be asked at the time, or just before, and make a decision then.

What I can't stand - and this seems to happen all the time with midwives at anti-natal, is when more than one comes into the room and they start the appointment.

All you get is a name and no explanation of why there are two of them in the room. It's only when I ask who each of them are, I'm told that one is a student - but my permission for the student to be there is not sought, and it is just assumed it is OK - very unprofessional..............

[hoxtonchick]

i have had both midwifery & medical students at practically all my antenatal appointments & am happy for them to be there. when i gave birth to ds, there was a lovely student doctor who stayed until the bitter end (midnight), long after she should have gone home. she'd had a baby the year before, a ventouse delivery, & when it turned out i needed one too it was really reassuring to have someone in the room who'd been through it recently. i had her & dp holding one hand each!

[lailag]

The Minister for Public Health (Ms Tessa Jowell): I have listened with great interest to the points raised by the hon. Member for Oxford, West and Abingdon (Dr. Harris). He is right to say that there is a serious mismatch between the number of fully trained specialists in obstetrics and gynaecology and the number of consultant jobs available. We are rightly concerned about that.

I should like to set out the background. By the end of April, there were 117 doctors who had completed their specialist training in obstetrics and gynaecology but had not found suitable posts.

This is from 1999 and is one of the reasons obs and gynae was not a popular choice amongst doctor friends

[Ollie2005]

I personally have had better treatment from the student midwifes than of those that are qualified at my appointments, they don't make you feel stupid or that they are wasting your time. Their enthusiasm and concern has made my last few appointments more the bearable as usually I am reduced to tears. One student I would love to have deliver my baby as I have had more confidence in her ability and attitude than my normal midwife.

[Rochwen]

I'd be happy to have students with me at the birth, but I do want to be asked beforehand and I would prefer it if it was only one instead of a 'herd of 3 or 4'.