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For those of you who wrote negative things to Ema76 about her CS will you please read this.....

(345 Posts)
Shooflypie Thu 14-Aug-08 17:35:30

because I am really, really shocked by some of the things that were said to her. I am repeating some of what I wrote on the original post on the basis that I think this issue is important.

I recently had an el cs for exactly the same reasons as Ema76. My mother had a 48 hour labour, forceps delivery, severe tearing which led to incontinence in later life (and further operations), was sectioned with severe PND, which lasted for over a year.

She said it was the worst thing that ever happened to her.

My experience was that my consultant took my fear of VB VERY seriously and his view was that a VB would put me at risk of PND and not bonding with my baby. (And btw I am perfectly robust in all respects other than this particular issue.)

I did have counselling, which was great and sorry but their goal is NOT to persuade you out of a CS as some posters assume.

I had an elcs and it was a fantastic experience. And the recovery was fine. And DS did NOT having breathing difficulties and he DID BF while I was still in the theatre.

Please take note of the following in particular:
A significant additional part of my anxiety and distress prior to the cs being offered, was that I was afraid of other women being judgemental of me.

I was so afraid of this I considered lying about the reasons for having a cs, or even trying for a VB (in the hope it would end in an em cs).

Due to a clued up consultant, a hospital psychologist, and a wonderfully supportive DP, I had the birth that was right for me and it has got our life as a family off to a flying start.

I am now very upfront about why I did have an el cs in the hope that it will be helpful to women like Ema.

I really don't understand why having a VB matters SO MUCH to some people that they think it is OK to behave with such viciousness to a pg woman? Or anyone.

Please will you reflect on the experience that I've outlined here and maybe try to be a bit more empathetic when someone tells you she wants a CS.

And bear in mind that a consultant and a pychologist took the opposite view to you.

greenlawn Thu 14-Aug-08 18:18:01

Hello I chanced on this while looking for something else - didn't see the original thread.

I had a cs in a very desperate and sad situation the first time round, then chose to have a vbac. I loved my vbac and hope to have another, but honestly I couldn't give two hoots how you chose to give birth! As long as it turned out OK for you then great.

I wish you all the best.

HappypillsGalore Thu 14-Aug-08 18:20:14

in the 21st century, in a 'developed' country we should all have all the info and means at our dispoosal to have a free CHOICE about birth.
damn straight there would be one if it were men giving birth

Tortington Thu 14-Aug-08 18:22:17

its all about proporting to be a prefect mother -unfortunatley this transpires into one up man ship

however if one mentions one up man ship one is accused of jealousy or feelings of inadequacy - which is clearly not the case

i am glad you had a great experience - i found the whole bloody thing (vb) so traumatic it haunts me to this day.

what ever floats your boat.

greenlawn Thu 14-Aug-08 18:28:08

Custardo is right - you can't win. I'm never sure which "camp" I'm meant to belong in having had a cs and then a drug-free vbac - oh and then I breastfed my children for over a year each. But then of course I'm a sahm which some people translate as "lazy cow". So I guess I'll just have to be me.

Welcome to the world of competitive parenting!

sarah293 Thu 14-Aug-08 18:32:28

Message withdrawn

amidaiwish Thu 14-Aug-08 18:35:20

i didn't see the original thread either, but i also don't understand why people are so sensitive about their choices and why they feel they have to defend them.

i had 2 VB
the first one i had an epidural, i was judged for that. did i care? no. i had had enough, the epidural was wonderful.

the second birth i had gas & air only. i was "praised" for that.


i have a nearly 3 year old who doesn't yet sleep through. everyone is ready with advice / suggestions on what i am doing "wrong". i ignore them. i don't take every comment as a criticism and could easily.

i was terrified of giving birth. i left the NCT class before "the video". i wanted a cs and was tbh gutted when DD1 turned late and was no longer breach. But the VB was fine. i would tell people that if they are also scared. but obviously other people have far deep rooted fears/issues about the whole thing which 99% of people can't imagine the intensity.

fedupandisolated Thu 14-Aug-08 18:35:33

Agree with you shooflypie - if a consultant agrees that it's necessary for the sake of the mother's mental health then it's fine and nobody elses business - end of story.

I planned a homebirth
I went well overdue
I went into hospital for induction
I had an advised CS for failed induction.

No problem
DS is 5 and I certainly don't stress about how he arrived in the world. I stress about how the darling little angel placed in my arms has turned into an arsey and back chatty little monkey but that's another story....

jafina Thu 14-Aug-08 18:39:08

didn't see original thread either but totally agree with op. I had an unpleasant emergency cs and then a wonderful vbac but that would never make me judgemental about a woman's right to choose the birth plan that is right for her.

And I certainly don't think you even need that many reasons to have an el cs either....

I still believe a perfect VB is the perfect birth but how many women achieve that???

Oh and I am a SAHM who fully supports women who choose to be WOHMs as well (and feels bloody jealous sometimes too ). Do i get extra points grin....

Fanlight Thu 14-Aug-08 18:40:41

Hear hear smile

Vaginal birth isn't something I particularly enjoyed!!!

expatinscotland Thu 14-Aug-08 18:40:55

I'm so glad my taxes are going to fund everyone buying into Channel 4's idea of what your fanny should look like.

That's so nice to know everytime I hear about how the NHS can't afford to fund another cancer drug that can save someone's damn life. Nah, a person keeping their 20-year-old fanny is far more important.

'There is no society'. Famous last words.

This country has gone to the fucking dogs, it really has.

LippyGobshite Thu 14-Aug-08 18:41:21

I saw only some of the original thread. I think that, whilst trying to show that vb has fewer complications etc etc etc., many people could have been seen as judgemental by Ema76. I don't think they were trying to be, they were trying to help, but I suppose the OP didn't see it that way.

Clearly, her fears of having a vb were far beyond 'normal' and as such I think she was in the category of women for whom a vb can bring about huge psychological trauma. It seemed to me it was necessary for her mental health to have a cs.

However, one of the things she put forward on the thread (as I understood it) was that cs is in some way better and safer than vb, and I think that may have put some backs up. Certainly, she had one post where she listed problems one could have from vb - but they would nearly all apply to a cs birth anyway. So in some way, she was in a postion of counter-arguing for cs as superior to vb. Shame she was in that position, but her feelings were obviously running high, and that's easily misinterpreted in text.

There are posters on here who've pushed for cs for other reasons and I don't think they've been criticised - but the cases I can think of involve physical, not mental, wellbeing.

SoupDragon Thu 14-Aug-08 18:44:48

I think part of the problem was the way the OP came across. Certainly there have been similar threads which have not gone the way of that one.

wannaBe Thu 14-Aug-08 18:49:10

I didn't read the thread in question, but I do wonder whether what has been perceived as nastyness towards the op was actually just intended to inform the op of the risk coupled with a lack of understanding as to why she feels so strongly about having a csection?

When there are risks to something, those that feel strongly enough about it can sometimes come across in a way that seems harsh and judgemental, and this is heightened by the fact that the words are written on a screen, because the screen does not convey emotion so it is possible to see something that isn't intended to be there, iyswim? (IMO smile).

I suppose I could be considered to be of the opposite opinion to the op in the other post. The thought of having to have a Csection absolutely terrified me. The thought of lying there awake while someone cut me open filled me with absolute dread, and yes, I cannot comprehend why anyone would actually make a conscious decision to go through that.

And the risks are real. And for someone who has been through vaginal birth it's incomprehensible that anyone would choose to put their baby at greater risk.

It's almost as emotive an issue as breast fe bottle IMO, and if you ask a wide audience for their honest opinions, then you need to do so in the knowledge that not everyone is going to be empathic and think that what you are doing is a good thing.

But if it is right for you then it is only you you ultimately have to answer to.

fedupandisolated Thu 14-Aug-08 18:49:25

I don't think that "I want my fanny to stay pristine" was the issue here though expat - I think this lady has a genuine phobia.
Equally I don't think the "keeping my fanny pristine" is a reason for CS over VB - I can't imagine many consultants agreeing a CS on that basis either. A genuine phobia though is another matter - forcing someone that phobic through a labour and vaginal delivery to save tax payers money is a false economy - we'll be paying for far longer to pick up the pieces afterwards.

thumbwitch Thu 14-Aug-08 18:49:35

I have a friend who tried for an elcs bcause she has various physical issues and because her sister had an emcs - one of my friend's issues is a blood clotting disorder, a bit like haemophilia, so the last thing she wanted was to need an emcs, hence her requesting an elcs because then everything would be planned for and under control. She also had a massively high level of anxiety about it and was given extremely good support, but was warned that, with her clotting problem, she would be better of trying for a VB first rather than having a possibly unnecessary operation.

In the end she had a cs because her DS was unstable lie, so it was sort of elcs, not emcs, and everything had been planned for "just in case".

I think it is very important that people's fears are listened to and taken account of, like my friend's were (and like the OP) and the correct decision made by the professionals involved. I do NOT think it is anything that any other of us have a right to judge them for, without knowing all the details.

tiggerlovestobounce Thu 14-Aug-08 18:50:55

I dont think there are any other situations where you are allowed to have major abdominal surgery soley because you want it.

fedupandisolated Thu 14-Aug-08 18:52:24

Ah - what about cosmetic surgery - that's pretty major isn't it? Stomach stapling, fat extraction (whatever it's called) all pretty major things.

CuckooChocolateOrange Thu 14-Aug-08 18:52:40

I agree. If you feel you have grounds for a CS, have it, don't let other people make you feel bad or inadequate. I'm glad they listened to your concerns.

tiggerlovestobounce Thu 14-Aug-08 18:55:08

Yes, you are right. I was thinking about the NHS, where cosmetic surgery wouldnt be done for no reason.

Carmenere Thu 14-Aug-08 18:56:18

Oh FFS, I read the first 50 posts on that thread and it was patently obvious that the woman had a phobia. Some cow interjected that she was too posh to push because she said she was happy to pay for the CShmm and it all went downhill from there, or rather I assume it did because I avoided it for the next 600 posts.
Not mn's finest, supportive, moment imo.

expatinscotland Thu 14-Aug-08 18:57:58

'I don't think that "I want my fanny to stay pristine" was the issue here though expat - I think this lady has a genuine phobia.'

She started out that way. Then about midway through came the comments about the fanny and not fancying 'sitting with legs akimbo' getting stitches (which doesn't even happen in many vaginal births) and how the fanny is 'never the same' and saggy boobs from bfing, etc.

Hope she realises how far her legs will be akimbo so the surgeon can do the operation and the joys of catherterisation and the like.

Sticking my neck out here and fair enoguh because I'm getting a bit fed up with the Channel 4 mentality in this lunar cycle but it wouldn't surprise me if the entire thing was a wind up.


tiggerlovestobounce Thu 14-Aug-08 18:58:33

Carmenere You are talented to be able to diagnose psychiatric illness over the internet... hmm

RubyRioja Thu 14-Aug-08 19:03:53

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

fedupandisolated Thu 14-Aug-08 19:04:06

Missed that posting - yep - catheter does indeed necessitate "legs akimbo".

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