Casaerean - C&W or St George's?

[Nachos]

Hi, I'm new on here, and spent yesterday terrifying myself by reading all the negative reports concerning post-birth care at C&W.

Here's my situation. This is my third baby, so it's not exactly new teritory for me, but it's my first due for delivery by casaerean. The reason for the casaerean is because I was so badly damaged by dire medical care at St George's during my second child's delivery, I subsequently had to have quite a major operation to reconstruct my pelvic floor, bladder and general internal bits. The danger is, if I have another vaginal delivery, the whole lot will fall to bits again.

So, because of my ordeal at St George's, this time I booked into C&W, oblivious to the seeming furore surrounding the standard of care there. (I also had a choice of St Thomas's). So far, ante-natal care has been fine - friendly and efficient all round. But the post-birth bit bothers me. I guess, having had a caesarean, I'll be kept in for a couple of days - which doesn't sound much fun on a ward or 9 other mothers and their babies. Don't you just end up hideously sleep-deprived? Also, difficulty in picking up your baby because of the discomfort hadn't occured to me - and how do you manage to get help if, as is suggested, there are no midwives around to ask. Is it really that bad?

I'm at the 17-week stage at the moment, so still have the chance to switch I guess. So should I just stop obsessing and get on with it at C&W? Or steel myself for going back to St George's - which was pretty much Third World when I was last there 6 years ago, but I gather is going through a refurb at the minute?

I know this is kind of old ground for this board, but I'd be grateful to hear of anyone's experiences - especially regarding casaereans.

[Kaz33]

Yep, it was for me - had DS1 by emergency c-section nearly six years ago. Horrendous experience.

It is going to be better if you have a planned c-section I would think. You can also plan loads of visitors to come and see you, enroll your family to help with having a shower etc... I had to do it on my own, after two days I hadn't had one because I could hardly walk.

They do have a nice coffee shop so you can escape the ward

The hardest bit will be at night, I had a lady on our ward who was always complaining, on the phone, whining.
Take some ear plugs to drown out the background noise, an eye mask, a good book, maybe some lavender to help you sleep. You should be out in two/three days - if you want to get out push them. I got out the same day with DS2 who was a normal birth.

[beansprout]

Can you go anywhere else? St Mary's?

[Kaz33]

Got to go and pick up DS2 from playgroup but will check back in later if you have any queries.

Do have to say that the medical /c-section staff were brilliant - which at the end of the day is the most important thing.

[TheBlonde]

What about St Thomas?
Postnatal ward I was on only had 3 beds and there was no traipsing down the corridor to a loo as there was a shower and loo on the ward

[chrisis]

Hi, I do not know the hospital you refer to, but did have an unexpected emergency ceaserean at N&N (Norwich). They were also short staffed and I had pneumonia to boot, which meant that I still had to act like a 'normal' mother as well as chase staff for medicine/general care etc while not being able to breathe!! I found that sleeping with baby in bed helped I know that is not advised, but it was in fact a member of staff who suggested it and showed me how to breastfeed while lying down!
If you can find a nice nurse to take baby the first night, so you can get some sleep, that definately helps (but it may not be possible) also, if the ward has private rooms and of course if you have the spare cash - as they usually cost around £75, getting one of those is a major plus too - beats the sleep deprivation slightly...
I found having a ceaserean was not overly restrictive, the first night was bad, but after that, you just end up getting on with it and even forget (sitting up in bed without rolling onto your side and then wishing you hadn't!).
To help:
Roll on side swing legs round and push yourself up to get out of bed.
Picking baby up isn't a problem as they are so light.
Ask for a physiotherapist if they don't immediately offer one - they will advise on ways to move and excersice.
Make sure you are given stockings in and post operation - these reduce the swelling in the legs (a bit like travel socks). N&N forgot with me...
I was very ill on the morphine used post-op, if you start being sick, just stop using it - the pain isn't that bad a few hours post op and beats being sick!
Buy big comfortable pants - 2 sizes too big and like those that your granny wore - you'll thank me, I promise
Get your birth partner to bring a big bag of cookies/biscuits/cake/apples/bananas etc - to make sure you get something inside you as you will end up hating that 'oh so lovely' hospital food oh and a big bottle of mineral water - the staff will forget to bring/top-up the water jug.
Sorry that it is a little long winded, but I hope this helps a little and good luck. I promise it is not as scary as it may seem, afterall we are mothers and it doesn't take long to get up and manage with whatever is thrown at us!!!

[Nachos]

Can't go to St Mary's - it's a striaght choice of St George's, C&W or St Thomas's. Good to know from Kaz33 that the casarean and medical staff are good at C&W, which is the prime concern. I guess I'm being a bit paranoid - suppose I can bear 2/3 nights of discomfort in the grand scheme of things.

But if St George's has improved in the 6 years since I had my hideous experience there (will have to try and block that one out - there's more to the story than just the physical damage), I guess it might be worth transferring? It's certainly easier to park there - although no Carluccios! And the post-birth care there was rubbish as well, so no improvement on C&W I guess. However, the wards are smaller and you can even get private amenity rooms for a few quid extra a night, I seem to remember.

[Anchovy]

I've had 2 planned c-sections (not at either of those hospitals), and I think they are very different from emergency ones. Mine were positively leisurely, and I was up on my feet the same day.

I suspect if you can plan your way round the known post-operative discomforts - food, noise, etc and stay for as little time as possible, you will be fine.

[lullamay]

Hi Nachos, I had both an emergency csection & a planned one at the C&W.

I felt that the planned one went much better both because I was more prepared & because the aftercare I got I felt was much better the second time round. Also it happened at 11 o'clock in the morning rather than at midnight.

I think we were 8 in a ward but it didn't bother me too much. The advantage of having the baby so early in the day is that you can have family there all day for the first day to help you/ sleep is not such an issue straight away.

Do take all the painkillers they offer.

C&W are rubbish on breastfeeding support though because the midwives do not have the time.

Sorry rambling a bit. My first c section was not a good experience, mostly because I was not expecting it. It was an emergency one. Afterwards I felt I couldn't move, struggled to lift my baby, etc but I found the midwives were very caring & helpful.

My planned csection was a much more positive experience & I seemed to recover more quickly -ie I was up within 24 hours.

Push for an early slot though because you can get bumped to the next day if you have an afternoon booking because emergencies take precedence.

[foxybrown]

FWIW, from what I can tell, post-natal wards are pretty hideous wherever you go so you might be best off doing a ward visit at each and then going on what you feel at the time.

I have a friend who has just had a C-section at C&W. Her ante-natal care was great, she kept herself fit beforehand (it was her 3rd CS) and took homoepathic rememdies. She came home after 2 days and has recovered amazingly well.

I'm under St Georges for the 3rd time, but having a homebirth. The ante-natal care has been fine, but limited as it is DC4.

HTH

[alicet]

OK don't live in london so have no idea about the hospitals. But have some general advice (I had an emergency section with my ds) - sorry if its repeated as haven't read whole thread.

Make sure you take painkillers regualrly rather than waiting till you're in agony. Thye work much better like this. Also big thumbs up for diclofenac suppositories. Ask them to put one in when you're having your section - they work great. Try to avoid morphine - if you need it then take it but better to do the above and you probably won't need it.

Get a widgey breastfeeding pillow even if you don't plan to breast feed. You can then support your baby while sitting (at the ideal height if you want to bf) and they aren't kicking up against your scar. Best thing I took into hospital!

ENORMOUS pants - otherwise the tops will sit against your scar.

When you need to move either roll to you side then get up or press on your scar till it hurts (this supports it) before moving. If you know you are going to be needing to get up and about soon take a painkiler a little while before (eg: in am before getting up for shower etc)

I was in a bay with 3 other mums and their babies for 3 nights. Strangely enough the babies weren't the problem - the bloody mums chatting at normal volume at 3am were! yes the sleep depravation wasn't funny but I'm not sure it would ahve been a lot better at home with a new baby!

Good luck!

[jem1969]

Don't have direct experience as having my 1st at C&W in Aug and like you, freaked out a bit at all the stuff on here.
However my friend is due to go into C&W for her 3rd elective CS in a few weeks and she is an anaethetist so can't be all bad. The first time she had a private room as there was one free. The next time she was on the ward but went home after 2 days. She did say that noone really helped her but it was OK as she sort of knew what she was doing and the MW were trying to concentrate more on the 1st time mothers.

[foxybrown]

Sorry to freak you out Jem! But I think that the upshot is post-labour isn't great. If you can be prepared, know as much as possible beforehand and not expect too much help, you can prepare yourself.

Its my understanding that they are simply understaffed or run by agency MWs. My own MW had her baby at St Georges and even she took her own antibac wipes in! I had my first at Kings, and ante-natal and delivery was lovely, but post-natal left a lot to be desired.

And remember, there is the support of community MWs once you have left, which I found more helpful with BF than in hospital.

But St Gs have had a refurb, so it might be lovely now (if its finished)

[jem1969]

foxybrown- don't worry- you didn't freak me out! It was months ago that I was reading the horror stories threads! I'm now so prepared for the post natal to be bad that if a MW so much as speaks to me I will think it's great!

[Nachos]

OK, the post-birth bit sounds pretty bad wherever you are - and I can certainly vouch for that in the case of St Georges. Am already planning a repertoire of suitably scathing retorts for any especially nasty midwives that I come across.

Bearing in mind that it's going to be more a matter of endurance than anything else, what's the minimum stay I can get away with after a planned casaerean, do you think? And presumably there's nothing to stop me discharging myself and escaping back to Battersea as soon as I can walk if i find it too unbearable?

[foxybrown]

I haven't had experience of a C-S, but I think that whatever you can do ante-natally will stand you in good stead post. So, if you look after yourself, keep yourself fit and healthy it all helps.

Like I said, a friend of mine had a 2 day stint in C&W after a planned CS. She was at aqua areobics the day before and took alternative remedies leading up to and after. She's made an amazing recovery.

Good luck with yours.

[jorange5]

Oh please don't choose st georges. i still get depressed thinking about my after 'care'. The staff are so horrible and i haven't met anyone who has recently had a baby there with a good word to say about the wards.

I must balance my criticism with a positive word about the surgery - excellent. But from the moment i was wheeled out of theatre i was in dirty, neglected, careless hell.

[Tinasan]

I had my DD at St Georges 8 months ago, highly medicalised birth although not a casaerean. Antenatal and care during the birth was really great but postnatal care absolutely dire. I think the postnatal wards are mostly staffed by agency nurses and they are really horrible - I was told at 3 in the morning that I needed to learn to look after my baby in a very disparaging tone (She was screaming every half hour to be fed). No shit, she was my first, about 10 hours old and I was still waiting on a blood transfusion after having ripped awfully during the birth!!!! However lots of my friends have had babies at C&W and their experiences of postnatal care are exactly the same - I think it is a general problem in London.