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Deprived of oxygen at birth - next urgent steps advice needed

(79 Posts)
Josef23 Sun 02-Jul-17 13:21:32

Hi

My sister in law and brother have had a child born this morning - second child daughter.

First child son was a traumatic birth emergency c section we did all push for them to have this time a planned c section but consultants convinced them to have normal birth which again resulted in emergency c section.

We are all distraught and I just want to help to help ensure that my brother is pushing the team to do the right things now to minimise any potential brain damage.

I have picked up a few things e.g. Apgar whilst reading other posts and hers was 7 then 9 then 10 after 10 minutes

She did suffer some oxygen loss and they will not give her cooling therapy as they have to cut through the belly button to do that and she is not bad enough to have that done.

Mother is distraught but getting better and can't really talk or do anything as she is fatigued and shattered.

Does Anyone know if that's a bare faced lie and if she can have cooling therapy?

I'm in tears thinking about the little one and just want to help her young innocent children babies shouldn't suffer.

Thanks

Josef

OP’s posts: |
flapjackfairy Sun 02-Jul-17 13:28:47

I am no expert but isnt 7 ok after 1 min ?
I dont know much re cooling therapy so no help there but so sorry you are all so upset and worried. Hope it all turns out ok x

TrueLove83 Sun 02-Jul-17 13:29:36

I'm sure the baby will be fine.

The apgar is fine.

If helps my daughter deteriorated from birth 7 hours later she was taken to NICU when I kept complaining she couldn't breath. Poor little one her SATs were 84%!!!

I was traumatised emergency section - begging them for hours saying she's not feeding or breathing. Thankfully one midwife eventually listened and she was rushed off.

She is now fine. A happy and sprightly 5.5 year old. Practically top of her class. Loads of energy. A gymnast and a swimmer!! She also loves Ballet & tap.

Is academically way above her peers.

Has her ups and downs as any child! But has a good little group of friends. Loves reading and playing!

So don't worry. It all sounds fine to me.

If baby is a 10 now it's ok, good luck

justkeeponsmiling Sun 02-Jul-17 13:33:41

Hey, neonatal nurse here. If baby's apar score was 7 at birth then I don't think baby was starved of oxygen, at least not to a level of it being dangerous or having long term implications, so I'm not sure why they would say that?

furryelephant Sun 02-Jul-17 13:34:09

I'm pretty sure an apgar of 7/9/10 is actually quite good smilecooling therapy in my experience (paeds nurse) is usually used when the baby has needed prolonged CPR or an APGAR of less than 5 at 10 minutes. It's very likely she will be absolutely fine but I'm so sorry to hear it was such a traumatic delivery though flowers

Josef23 Sun 02-Jul-17 13:34:41

Been told she has acute hypoxia google is saying do cooling regardless but dr s are refusing which was severe but is now not severe but still presenting!

OP’s posts: |
Crumbs1 Sun 02-Jul-17 13:38:26

Apgar is fine. Why would the baby need cooling unles HIE?

Josef23 Sun 02-Jul-17 13:39:24

Ok thanks all words are always reassuring don't know why the gods or Mother Nature makes babies suffer - her ph level was less than 7.2 from the umbilical cord if that helps with any advice. Beautiful morning and such nice sunshine and then this happens to my precious niece

OP’s posts: |
MrsJayy Sun 02-Jul-17 13:39:39

Maybe you should calm down qnd stop goggiling disaster symprons the neonatal nurse on the thread told you the level waa fine I hope you are not winding your brother up with this I am sorry they are going through the c section again but you really need to settle down flowers

MrsJayy Sun 02-Jul-17 13:40:19

Gosh typos sorry

EggysMom Sun 02-Jul-17 13:42:11

google is saying do cooling regardless but drs are refusing which was severe but is now not severe

Think I'd believe a trained Doctor over a google search result ...

AndTakeYourHorseWithYou Sun 02-Jul-17 13:42:17

I think you really need to back off and keep your paranoia to yourself. You are not helping them, you are creating panic and drama. You and google are no match for a hospital full of experts.
Leave them all alone and cool your jets.

RockyBird Sun 02-Jul-17 13:42:34

Good luck to them and congratulations to the family.

My DD needed 2 minutes of CPR after birth (cord looped twice round neck) and is absolutely fine.

furryelephant Sun 02-Jul-17 13:44:16

Acidosis for cooling therapy is defined as a pH level of <7 smile(within 60 minutes of birth). I'm pretty sure anything about 7.18 as an arterial umbilical value is considered normal but I may be wrong. Honestly, the doctors want your niece to be healthy just as much as you all do. If any treatment is necessary, they will do it!

sallysparrow157 Sun 02-Jul-17 13:44:59

She wouldn't meet the criteria for cooling with those apgar scores. Criteria include a score less than 5 at ten mins, continued need for resuscitation at 10 mins and symptoms like fitting or reduced consciousness - i.e. a moderate to severe hypoxic injury. There's no evidence that it has any benefit for mild hypoxic insults which tend to cause a baby to be a bit irritable initially but then resolve fully

It also has to be initiated within 6 hours of birth if possible to be most effective

Cooling is not without risk - the child has to be sedated and fully ventilated as they can't be allowed to shiver, theyd need invasive monitoring and things like blood sugars and clotting to be watched closely, it's a long time since I've done it but I'm pretty sure they're not allowed to feed even with a feeding tube so would need intravenous nutrition which is an infection risk.

Everything doctors do have risks and benefits - it sounds like in this case the risks significantly outweigh the benefits

HopeYourCakeIsShit Sun 02-Jul-17 13:45:03

I can appreciate your concern, but you are coming across as very dramatic in the face of being told all is well.
Stop googling.

Loopytiles Sun 02-Jul-17 13:46:23

It's worrying, but it was not your place to seek to get involved in birth decisions, nor to seek to influence medical treatment: it's likely to add to the new parents' anxiety.

justkeeponsmiling Sun 02-Jul-17 13:48:50

The low ph can indicate that baby was low on O2 at birth HOWEVER this happens fairly regularly and while it will need monitoring, in itself it is NOT and indication for cooling. Babys MAY sometimes need cooling if they have been so starved of O2 at birth for such a long time they need to be actively resuscitated. This baby's apgars clearly show that they did not need resuscitation. Please calm down - it is horrible to have a baby in NICU, however this baby sounds like he/she will be fine. I agree with MrsJayy, please please step away from dr Google and please do not stress out your DB with your doom-and-gloom and frankly incorrect assumptions flowers

sallysparrow157 Sun 02-Jul-17 13:49:54

Cord pH criteria is under 7

The baby when transitioning from being a fetus (with normal oxygen saturation between 30 and 70%) to a baby (with saturations above 95%) is able to tolerate significant hypoxia without any long term effects whatsoever. It really doesn't sound like there's anything at all to worry about here

ImperialBlether Sun 02-Jul-17 13:50:00

You need to calm down - you're really not helping matters here. Do you really think the doctors wouldn't do what was right under the circumstances?

Josef23 Sun 02-Jul-17 13:52:57

The hospital pushed them to have a Natural birth this time after the disastrous first birth 3 yrs ago which led to severe blood loss for the mother and 2 week stay in hop first time... moral is have to take everything said with a pinch of salt ...my other brother is a lawyer and he has seen first hand many horror stories - his last client baby died at 16 months due to the same problem...but much more severe....settled out of court as cooling therapy X-rays etc were not offered.... the nhs treat civilians like simpletons and unless informed knowledge is given to the care team they won't step up their game or give the parents informed advice... I don't think I'm winding my brother up I'm getting info and feeding back positive things.... their is only one chance to ensure there is no damage no matter how mild or severe and it's in the protocols followed immediately after birth.... on a weekend in a much stressed and underfunded nhs I think that doing what you can for the children at risk is far more important than any perceived stress that may be caused but I hope your right and the other persons who have posted and the baby is fine. I am a natural born worrier but it's helped me to foolproof my life and others thus far by thinking ahead.... thanks for the reply anyway it's reassuring

OP’s posts: |
Lj8893 Sun 02-Jul-17 13:54:00

You are seriously over reacting and probably terrifying your brother and sister in law.

An apgar of 7 at 1 minute is within the realms of "normal". And an apgar of 10 at 10 minutes is perfect!

Josef23 Sun 02-Jul-17 13:54:37

All
I will stop googling xxx !

OP’s posts: |
DancingLedge Sun 02-Jul-17 13:55:17

Two of mine had scores WAY lower than that.And needed no subsequent treatment.
These scores are really fine. 7 initially is fine. 9 for the second score is very good. 10 for the third indicates no problem ,at all.

What you need to be doing right now is calming yourself down, and supporting the parents with reassurance.

It's lovely that you care, and are ready to go into battle on their behalf, but this particular point is a non-issue.

Tiredstressed Sun 02-Jul-17 13:56:07

You appear to be googling the worst case scenario and stressing over it. If I had just given birth, having someone relaying such information to me would be very stressful. Are you medically trained? You appear very dismissive of those who are. There is more to it than googling.

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