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Refusing cannula after pph in first birth

(29 Posts)
Asmywhimsytakesme Sat 20-Oct-12 08:46:39

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mellen Sat 20-Oct-12 08:50:04

You dont have to consent to a procedure if you don't want to. Have you had a chance to discuss it with your midwife or obstetrician, so that you have enough information about the various risks and options to make a decision?

Asmywhimsytakesme Sat 20-Oct-12 08:53:37

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Sarahbananabump Sat 20-Oct-12 08:59:00

I would check to be honest .
Where I work you only need management ( ie cannula ) if prev PPH of over 1000 mls

peggyblackett Sat 20-Oct-12 09:06:51

I was advised to do this with dc3 (2 previous PPHs of similar volume to yours). I am massively canula phobic, however I chatted about it with my parents (both HCPs) and they said that if I started to haemorrhage it really wouldn't be fun to have to try and insert a canula into a collapsed vein. I went with it and it was fine - yes, it did mean that I didn't labour on the MLU but I had a relatively low tech birth.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

TheDetective Sat 20-Oct-12 09:07:56

You can accept or decline whatever procedure is offered to you.

To perform without consent constitutes assault.

EdsRedeemingQualities Sat 20-Oct-12 09:13:20

I don't know the answer but I did have a pph after my second birth. (about 500ml? so a bit less than you)

It was controlled within 30 seconds by an injection of synto - what happened with yours, what sort of intervention did it require?

I've been nudged in the direction of another home birth by my current midwife, because she said it was still low risk - and I presume I'll just have the injection during the second stage instead of waiting till after (managed third stage I think it's called). just in case.

Thing is our hospital is half an hour away, and last labout was 3.5 hours start to finish, and probably no one to drive me there except myself which might not be ideal smile so unless things go very wrong and I have to call an ambulance, it'll be better to stay put probably. Well that's what she said.

No mention of a cannula - I had one with ds1 in hospital, but I had an epidural with him so I think that's why.

Asmywhimsytakesme Sat 20-Oct-12 09:48:25

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nananaps Sat 20-Oct-12 09:55:24

Out of curiosity, why are you considering refusing this?

(Jus asking)

AnnIonicIsoTronic Sat 20-Oct-12 09:58:41



What's wrong with a canula?

I don't want people hacking my veins in a rush!

LunaticFringe Sat 20-Oct-12 10:01:50

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Asmywhimsytakesme Sat 20-Oct-12 10:04:54

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Asmywhimsytakesme Sat 20-Oct-12 10:05:44

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nananaps Sat 20-Oct-12 10:16:02

Agree that they are uncomfortable and sore..BUT it really is very very VERY stressful and near impossible to get one into some one who has had massive blood loss and has no blood pressure.

If its in, fluid can be given immediately. This can be the difference of seeing someone die before our very eyes, very quickly, if not, kidney failure, brain injury as a result of no blood pressure etc etc etc.

All for a wee tube being a wee bit sore.

I dont really think that it being sore is reason enough tbf.

Asmywhimsytakesme Sat 20-Oct-12 10:17:33

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nananaps Sat 20-Oct-12 10:25:36

I dont see any reason why not! As long as its in there at a resonable time..not too late iyswim.

Have to say that when you want to move yourself and that thing is sticking in the back of your hand, it really does affect your ability to get comfy easily, it really does i get that.

Im not sure if MW are trained to insert canulas tbh, but if they are, during labour i bet you have huge big juicy viens so popping one in would take seconds...unless of course you are are swollen up with fluid...then its a fecking nightmare!!

callow Sat 20-Oct-12 10:31:23

When I had my trial VBAC I refused to have a cannula inserted "just in case".

Mine was an educated view as I was a nurse who worked with anaesthetists and I never came across a problem.

In the end I did need one as I wanted an epidural. The midwife was very apologetic to the anaesthetist about not having a cannula in but he didn't care, he just quickly popped one in before he did the epidural.

If someone has a large haemorrhage they will need a large cannula inserted. So even if they have a smaller one in they would need to put another one in.

In my view it all a matter of weighing up the risks. Only you can decide that.

OhTinky Sat 20-Oct-12 10:41:09

I'd had a really good birth experience and water birth until it came to the placenta delivery and PPH - think I lost 1100mms, but didn't need a transfusion. They mentioned any second delivery would need a canula, but would I be allowed another water birth?

Asmywhimsytakesme Sat 20-Oct-12 10:42:09

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Asmywhimsytakesme Sat 20-Oct-12 10:49:40

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maxbear Sat 20-Oct-12 11:39:49

600ml is not a massive amount, I'm sure that most areas would not even consider a cannula unless there are other risk factors. I lost 500 at my second birth but went on to have a planned home birth with a physiological third stage for my third birth. No one thought twice about it, I am a midwife and my friend delivered me each time, neither of us thought it was a risk. I did make sure I ate well and had a good haemoglobin towards the end of pregnancy and would have had the injection had it seemed necessary. Where I work it would be recommended if the previous pph was over a litre. Lots and lots of women lose 500 -600ml, most of them lose slightly less or similar the next time.

Asmywhimsytakesme Sat 20-Oct-12 11:46:22

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vixo Sat 20-Oct-12 11:54:42

I agree that a 600ml pph doesn't seem that huge, but different units will probably have different policies. I think this is something you could discuss at the time with the people looking after you - probably not worth worrying about before you're even pregnant!

If you did decide to have one you could ask them to put it in your arm where it will be less likely to get in the way - not in the crook of your elbow because that is uncomfortable, but there's a big vein that can usually be cannulated quite easily in the forearm which is a good one to go for.

No reason why you couldn't move around, use gas and air etc, but if they're that worried about a previous pph they would probably advise against you being in the pool anyway, and with a cannula in, the pool obviously wouldn't be a great idea.

They always use large cannulae in obstetrics, because the reason for having them in is resuscitation. If you had a huge bleed then you would need another in as well, but the first would make the initial resuscitation easier, and therefore make it easier to get another one in. That said, anaesthetists are experts at putting these things in, so provided there was one there ASAP you'd probably be ok whatever you decided!

serendipity16 Sat 20-Oct-12 11:55:17

I know its not much fun but as others have said, you need to weigh up the risks etc.
I have to have a cannula in each hand when i have my babies, i have to be honest i do find it uncomfortable having them in both hands.
However i know they are doing it for my own good due to having a massive hemorrhage (placental abruption) in one pregnancy & losing a fair amount of blood in other pregnancies too.
To be honest i never even gave it a 2nd thought.... i just thought the doctors know better than me so had them done.

Jollyb Sat 20-Oct-12 16:46:12

If you do need a cannula try to make sure that they insert it in a sensible place - ie not over the wrist joint like mine was - I couldn't move my hand.

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