Today I found myself saying I want a termination if they won't let me have an ELCS. :(

[Thandeka]

I have said it before I ever got pregnant (after previous incredibly traumatic birth) but I wasn't sure if I was serious, but now I am pregnant and at my birth reflections appointment today when the lady downplayed my experience and hinted that I might not be able to get an ELCS I found myself shrieking hysterically at her:
"then I want a termination then- I can't and won't go through it again".

I am not sure if I meant it. If they were to seriously make me have a VB again with no pain relief then I definitely did. But they won't be that cruel surely so I probably didn't mean it. I love this little almost 10 week bean already but can't risk losing or damaging anymore babies (had an MMC 10weeks, 16month old DD with oxygen starvation and suspected brain damage but mostly fine now and recent ectopic pregnancy where I lost a tube)

The very fact I got so upset and mentioned termination will probably mean I will get an ELCS (consultant appt in two weeks) but I am a bit suprised at how visceral my reactions are and quite how hysterical I am appearing to the HCP's. Oh dear they probably want to section me rather than C-section me!

OOOPS!

[Adair]

Oh Thandeka, think you are right to go for an ELCS. I'm sorry I didn't reply to your message yet, I meant to email you properly.

Good for you for standing your ground and showing some real emotion.

[Thandeka]

Thanks Adair- will natter to you sometime about it.

I didn't mean to go hysterical- my counsellor tells me off for always cracking jokes about serious stuff as she says people need to see what's really upsetting me- but erm no danger of them not seeing!

Haha- suspect pregnancy hormones make me more hysterical than normal. :D

[buttonmoon78]

And so it begins again.

After a non childbirth related incident with ds recently (where my to-be-later-proved-correct fears were brushed off I am utterly hacked off with hcps, and lost all sense of confidence.

I really hope that you get the go ahead soon for your section () so that you can spend the rest of your pg looking forwards with confidence.

[gailforce1]

How dare she downplay your previous experience? This was incredibly unprofessional and uncaring of her. Before your appt with the cons what about writing down your experience so you can refer to it or, if necessary hand it to him/her to read? Can your DP go with you to support you and make sure your views are listerned to?

[Helzapoppin]

Fingers crossed for you. It maybe worth taking in the new (draft) ELCS NICE guidelines. They mention that if, after counselling, a 'normal' birth is still unacceptable to a woman, she should be offered a section. Only guidelines and only draft, but s/he should be looking to follow best practice. And rememer, you can always ask for a second, third or forth opinion and it is useful to get your GP on side too.

[fruitybread]

Yes, the draft NICE guidelines are here if you want them -

www.nice.org.uk/newsroom/pressreleases/CSectionUpdateConsultation.jsp

It's totally unfair and callous for anyone to downplay your experience. I really, really hope you get a consultant who treats you humanely and with respect.

[Wormshuffler]

I am currently having similar worries. Although my experience is no-where near as bad as yours!
I have had 2 emcs, both for the same reason, long labours, both back to back and didn't descend despite being fully dilated, was told at my post natel it must be down to my shape.
When I had my booking in and gave details of previous births she looked sceptically at me and said " but if you got fully dilated it must be possible"
I will dig my heels in big time, unless they can give me scans to disprove what I was told post natally there is no way i am consenting to another attempted VBAC. I don't know if I stand more of a chance in that I have had 2 CS though.

[AlpinePony]

Thandeka - I'm so sorry you were driven to making such a statement. :( I do hope though that as a result of said statement they might realise that you are "psychologically unable" to give birth vaginally - it's my understanding that considerations of suitability for an elcs are not just physical!

I sympathise very much, I have just found out I am expecting my second - and following a rather difficult birth (emcs) I have absolutely no desire to VBAC. If they ask me to I will probably say the same as you did, but perhaps with more drama & swearing! In my delivery suite last time I threatened to "jump out of the window" if they didn't sort it out.

[Thandeka]

Haha AlpinePony. During DD's birth I was screaming for them to knock me out with a hammer and when they threatened theatre (thinking I wouldn't want that) I was begging for it with a GA!
Suspect I will get ELCS have consultant appt in two weeks.
Hope you can have an ELCS I believe it's much easier after previous CS.

[StealthPolarBear]

:( Thandeka
Why would the only options be ELCS or VB without pain relief? Surely pain relief shold be available??
Not that I'm saying you shouldn't have an ELCS - I think you should, and hpe you do

[Thandeka]

Ah sorry for the confusion- I would be allowed pain relief (but it didn't work initially so hours of intolerable pain and once the second epidural worked that's when cascade of intervention happened plus they had to let it wear off to let me push so back into agony again before they decided to top it up and go in and get her with forceps &episiostomy). My comparison was I genuinely think I would terminate rather than be forced to have a VB with no pain relief (with same outcomes -eg.NICU and 02starvation) but given that pain relief would be available then obviously its a bit of a hysterical statement/comparison!
There is about a 10% chance I am open to trying to VB again and I am exploring that option- but would need a Doula/IM, lots of CBT/therapy beforehand, suitable effective guaranteed pain relief and promise of CS if it even looks like the baby is even the teeniest bit distressed. But I reckon ELCS is my safest option as I just can't risk a possibly bigger second baby (DD was 9.5lbs) getting stuck and oxygen starved again.

[StealthPolarBear]

Oh I see :(

I think you do whatever is needed to make you enjoy the rest of your pregnancy and feel confident about the birth

[Thandeka]

Just wanted to bump this thread to say my request for ELCS was agreed no problem. Was such an enormous weight off my mind that I do feel so so much calmer and happier now. Thankyou so so much to all who responded and supported me. Am also starting CBT next month and am even exploring (Very slim) possibility of a vaginal birth next time as now I feel more confident and in control of my options.

Also wanted to say that the current spate of trolling ELCS/Tokophobia threads are disgusting as suspect it is making threads such as mine possibly getting written off as trolling. Appreciate my thread title may have read as an "outlandish troll type statement" which is unfortunate (but it was a genuine post- you just have to see my birth trauma posting history to see that!). Sigh. Just wanted a mini rant really but didn't want to start it's own thread.

[Malvapoeding]

Thandeka - I'm sad I didn't see your thread earlier - You are in the same area as me and I assume heading for the RUH? I would gladly reassured you that you would have had no problem getting an ELCS - the consultants are very sympathetic to previous birth trauma.

[Thandeka]

Aww hello Malvapoeding- yep RUH- consultant was sympathethic and did agree but did try and downplay my experience a bit again because there is no physical need for an ELCS and forceps and oxygen starved babies etc are fairly normal
but hey at least they agreed to it without me having to fight - really has made me feel 100 times better- I was even able to watch a labour and a CS on babies behind bars the other week without going hysterical (before if I even saw an advert for OBEM I'd get very upset!)

are you going to big bath september meet? I am - am generally sane in RL promise!

[Flisspaps]

Thandeka - I will back your statement that you're not a troll, and find the current spate of trollish threads absolutely outrageous.

So glad that you've got the ELCS agreed :) I find it appalling that some of the HCPs you have encountered have tried to downlplay your experience though. Having never experienced it themselves, they are not in a position to try and belittle what you went through.

[TotalChaos]

yes, I have seen you around the boards for years, and remember your worries about your DD after your traumatic birth experience.

Am v glad that consultant was reasonably helpful, and you feel better about the birth now they have agreed to ELCS.

[Malvapoeding]

Unfortunately not - I have to work :(

Which consultant did you see? Last pregnancy I was under Mr Walker as we were at his fertility cinic and this time I saw Diana Dunlop and she was AMAZING she asked the MW's to ring when I went in so she could deliver DD2, unfortunately D2 had other plans and was almost born in the car park!

[Thandeka]

Thanks Flisspaps. :) yeah am bit tempted to write letter about birth relections midwife downplaying it- her very role means she will often be dealing with traumatised clients so should be careful what and how she says things.
Is interesting because old hospital were amazing antenatally and postnatally once left hospital (just awful at labour and postnatal wards!) and they never once downplayed my experience and supported me really well with the PTSD stuff in early days (although to be fair previous consultant did hint elcs was drastic and would prefer to induce at 38wks to prevent macrosomic baby)- but at least new hospital are going along with my wishes.

[Thandeka]

Thanks totalchaos :)

malvapoeding - have Mrs Quereshi- she seems nice- head of all midwives was in ELCS appt too so must have been taken v.seriously! Have heard good things about Walker and Dunlop too. We'll have to do another post work meet sometime then too!

[squiggleywiggler]

Thandeka feeling like your experience is being invalidated is unacceptable. I'd definitely write in as perhaps this midwife could do with reminding what her role as a birth reflection midwife should entail.

You might find Sheila Kitzinger's Birth Trauma book useful to read. I sometimes hesitate as it's really more from a birth professional's perspective, but it gives a great insight in to what you are going through, how your HCPs could react to this to help you through it and positive strategies for a second birth. www.amazon.co.uk/Birth-Crisis-Sheila-Kitzinger/dp/0415372666?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

[Thandeka]

Thanks for reccommendation will defo have a read. Yeah will write to them I think. :)

[Secondtimelucky]

Gosh Thankdeka, just seen this thread is yours too. In which case, double my good wishes for finding someone helpful to support you. Hope it all goes well.

[Secondtimelucky]

Oops, shouldn't try to type with sleeping baby balanced on lap. Thandeka.

[Thandeka]

Cheers Secondtimelucky :)

Looks like HQ have finally deleted the ELCS trolling thread so that's a relief.
OP never returned after it was pointed out. Some people are just sick.