To think CAMHS are so shit! Poor DS is breaking down

[Mindgoinground12]

I've posted on here about mine and older DS's (17) MH. We have help in rl but tonight i just dont know what to do! I just need to get it down.
So basically DS has had MH problems for a while and has really struggled after a year of countless A&E trips, S136 by police and MHA assements. He was put on a section 2 then a 3 in early august he stayed at the unit for 4 months and was diagnossed with ASD (we knew this), BPD and PTSD with psychotic traits and was put on medication i finally saw my child coming back to himself after a good couple weeks with good camhs involment he was doing really well. Then christmas came... he started self harming again and soon refused to take his meds. I contacted his worker who said he would see his psychiatrist in the next few days. This never happened a couple days before chritmas he self harmed in a number of places very deep so we said he needed t go to hospital he kicked of and ran out of house covered in blodd. We phoned police who picked him up about an hour later where he was restrained handuffed and detained under a 136 (police section). I got a phone call to say he was really kicking of and police could stay with him the whole time. He was assesed had calmed down a but and came home. We had chritmas which was fine. Then a few days later 27th DS 3 (12) said that DS1 had been in our bathroom for ages i went to see if he was okay and there was no reply. I got worried and tried to unlock the door hed jammed it with something i got really worried phoned police, got the other 4 DC to go with DH out, they came broke down the door DS was covered in blood shivering and in a psychotic state, he had a knife and was threatning to kill himself. Soon I had about 8 police officers in my house 2 with tasers DS wouldnt budge they eventually got the knife of him he was restrained by about 6 coppers handcuffed again and leg strapped- having been arrested. Strapped down in an ambualnce so be couldnt move he was screaming and screaming and crying. It broke my heart. He was assessed under the MHA again and the team told me -ona phone call if something like this happens agin he will be back in hospital and wed hear from wither his or a duty CAMHS worker tommrow. I got him home he was tired and slept. I couldnt sleep thinking about evreything I love him, but he needs better care I have 4 younger DC at home and its diffcuilt for them to. We didnt hear from CAMHS the next day a couple days later we still hadnt heard from them I tried ringing and nothing! His worker finally messaged a couple days ago to have an appotment at his home today at 12:00 all fine. It got to 13;00 he hadnt turned up DS texted his worker no response. it got to 15;00 and DS started breaking down. I rang CAMHS and apprently worker of ill today, it would have been nice to get a phone call! I had to get DH to pick up other DC's from school. DS is know on a rampage has refused to see anyone from camhs and is threatening to kill himself tonight as he dosent see the point as people obviously dont want to help him. Hes refusing any help what do i do. I just cant do it anymore i love him so much and want whats best for him. But i dont know whats best for him anymore. WHat do i do tonight, short term long term. I just think however camhs are streched they could have done better.

[Mindgoinground12]

Sorry that was so long if you read thank you so much, it was more about just getting it down all in one

[WellAlwaysHaveParis]

So sorry to hear this OP - it must be heartbreaking :(

[WellAlwaysHaveParis]

I'm really sorry I can't offer any advice for now, but I'm here for you in case you need a listening ear or support

[Mellowyell0w]

Unfortunately your best option is back to hospital either voluntarily if he’ll agree or with police and ambulance ( hospital a&e is deemed the place of safety in crisis) I work in peads a&e so see this in the under 16 group a lot. CAMH is a very underfunded understaffed service often not fit for purpose.
The next bit will be hard for you but will force the other services into action you need to refuse to take him back home (either stating the welfare or psychological damage to younger siblings of witnessing brother behaviour) . It’s horrible to say but It seems to be that the parents that kick up the most fuss get the quicker response. It may be that social services the got involved as he’s under 18 still classed as a minor but it will mean he gets more support.

[52FestiveRoad]

It sounds so difficult, your love for him is obvious OP and you are doing everything you can in getting him help. He needs you to keep doing that, however much the system lets him down he knows he has you. Hopefully someone with more knowledge on the issue will be along soon but I just wanted to send you a vurtual hug.

[Gilead]

Where are your Crisis team? Do you have a number for them, they should be coming out in these circumstances.

[WhoWants2Know]

It sounds like they really don't have a grasp on the AS part of his diagnosis, or they would understand that if they say something is going to happen, it NEEDS to happen. Their failure to follow through is creating mistrust and probably contributing to his meltdowns. So sorry, OP.

[Mindgoinground12]

Thanks mellow I know thats the best option but cant phone police when hes in house they wouldnt repsond -they only did that time as he had a knife and he wont go to a&e voluterily. So its like i have to wait for it to get to s dangerous point. Social services have been invloved and done less than CAMHS... god knows how that was possible.

Gilead Crisis team wont come near as under 18. CAMHS have an on call crisis team but you have to refered to them and they only work 9-5 mon-fri

[endofthelinefinally]

Crisis team?
Would those be the people who, when I phoned in desperation when ds was on the roof, told me they couldn't do anything because it was the middle of the night. They did say that if I could talk him down they might be able to speak to him on the phone. Marvellous.
Op I am so sorry. It is heart breaking and infuriating in equal measure.

[Glitterbugg]

If he’s threatening to kill himself the police should come out.
You could also try ringing for an ambulance.
As for Camhs - they should have a duty worker and part of that role would be to cover urgent appointments in the absence of the usual care coordinator.

When you say BPD are you referring to borderline or bipolar?

Hope things improve - for all of you!

[Mindgoinground12]

end im so sorry for your experience was your DS under 18 at time or was it adult? But i agree crisis team = shit.
Glitter i thought that about duty worker so not even to get a phone call! If he gets more distressed i may call an ambulance. But i have other DC to think about to and im reffering to borderline personality disorder - sorry should have made that clearer
THanks all for support

[endofthelinefinally]

He was adult, Mindgoinground.

[manicinsomniac]

I'm so sorry you're going through this.

CAMHS are very good at what they do but this is way beyond their limitations, I would say. He needs a proper (probably adult) crisis intervention and another section into hospital.

[Mindgoinground12]

oh end so sorry I havent experienced ault crisis team but have heard they are not fanrastic.
manic i agree but adult crisis wont go near as under 18.

[IHaveBrilloHair]

Terrible, terrible experience with CAMHS here, DD punched me in the face and they denied it ever happened.
She's been in A&E twice after suicide attempts, no help, none.

[Ilikecheesycrackers]

If he is refusing to go to a &e you may be able to get medical help via the GP out of hours service (call nhs24).
This would work in our area (would be a home visit if suicidal person is refusing to attend), so it may do in yours, too.

[FeistyColl]

I really feel for you Mind your description of your darling DS being strapped down and terrified breaks my heart.
Your post terrifies me too. My DD has an ASD and MH issues and selfharms (cutting) and thoughts of suicide. It is impossible to describe to others who have not experienced it, the sheer terror and helplessness.

At the moment, I exert every ounce of energy I have, keeping her away from total crisis. But because it feels that, as long as I manage to do this, the support she needs longer term is not available. The most frightening catch 22.

Sadly it seems that you do need to demand, demand and keep demanding.

I don't know how you manage with other DCs to support, but take my hat of that you do , so I wish you strength and hope that your precious DS gets the help he needs.

[Mindgoinground12]

So sorry ihave
Ilkie weve tried that before dosent work
you sound so strong feisty and thank you so much for words of support.
Theres just no routes you can go down when U18 are ill like this until it reaches crisis and/or dangerous

[Reflexella]

Keep phoning police & crisis (regardless of their response)
Take notes & complain to Trust & Local MP.
It’s not good enough. There appears to be no regard to child protection for your son or other children.
Keep pushing x

[mikeyssister]

My DS has Rivatril that he takes in an emergency. Do you have anything similar?

Best advise I can give is to work on convincing your son to take his medication. It will stabilise his moods and makes the breakdowns much less regular/

[strangerhoes]

First thing is the refusal of mess- he will have to have them injected instead.
BPD often stems from trauma.
What has happened to him?

[strangerhoes]

meds*

[Whywonttheyletmeusemyusername]

I'm in a similar situation to feisty. Absolutely no words of advice for you. I feel that my DC is on the edge of the same path your DS has gone down. It must be terrifying op. I can offer a handhold, and an ear. I wish I could offer advice

[unweavedrainbow]

17 is very very young for a BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) diagnosis unless there is a marked history of trauma. Are they sure it's BPD, rather than, say, a lack of emotional insight due to his AS? It's a bit of a sledgehammer diagnosis, really. If he does have BPD then he needs specialist input from the adult CMHT (ideally DBT) as CAMHS isn't really equipped to deal with adult personality disorder. Sadly, this is one of the downsides of keeping young people in CAMHS longer. I got diagnosed with BPD at 16 (history of severe trauma including sexual abuse) and was chucked straight into adult MH. A bit of a shock at the time, but I did get help which you aren't guaranteed from CAMHS.
it does sound like he would be better off in hospital though, just to keep him safe.

[Mindgoinground12]

I'd rather not go into whats happened in his past if thats okay. When he was first under CAMHS tehy sad he had traits of bpd but this wasnt diagnosed till 18 so diagnosed him with Emotional disregulation disorder. It wasnt till he went to hospital did they diagnses i questioned it at first but was told they were sure of the diagnoses given the traits he was showing and his backgrond and history of traits. They said it was never diagnosed under 16 but was occasionaly diagnosed in under 18s if the psychitrist was sure but this had to be backed up by another doctor. Our local CAMHS questioned it when we came back to. But theyve stuck with the dignoses. In our local CAMHS it actually goes to 25 if youve been under serivce since under 18. and any adult service will categorically NOT see anyone under 18 even if they were 17 years 11 months and 28 days old. with any doagnoses and that includes crisis team.