Dd school refusing..getting no where with CAHMS

[onanotherday]

Dd is 14 and been diagnoised with PTSD, anxiety and depressions. We finally, after a long wait, are attending CAHMS..
8 months on not making much progress and im teally worry about GCSE's. Beside her health the added stress of being s single psrent and syrughling to work has had an pact on me too. I've started to consider home schooling ( I'm a teacher). But financially we struggle..would I be intitle to a career allowance? Can anyone advise
TIA

[April45]

Have you spoken to school about options? Reduced time table, smaller class?? I wonder if they were to help this may help Dd to get in for some of her lessons. Camhs should be able to support the school if this is needed.

[LambethWalk]

You could apply for Disability Living Allowance for your daughter and you may also qualify for carer's allowance.
The school should already be making adjustments as she has medical diagnoses.
Lots of advice about school refusing here from others in similar situations
m.facebook.com/groups/307904692554158?view=info&refid=18&ref=bookmarks

[RaindropsAndSparkles]

Why are you getting nowhere with CAMHS.

[Littleguggi]

There's only so much CAMHS can do in this situation, of course they can be helping to reduce the feelings of anxiety and depression through CBT, however it's about multi agency working and like someone else suggested, getting school on board. School should be offering additional support and putting in place a re-integration plan. Being out of school is only going to further impact negatively on her mental health.

[RaindropsAndSparkles]

LittleGuggi CAMHS is responsible for providing mental health diagnoses for under 18s, for providing therapies and medication, and establishing if there are Neuro developmental disabilities. That is absolutely why they exist, and why they employ specialist clinicians who are not to be found in schools.

If CAMHS would stop spending time batting away their responsibilities and using their time to support young people many many more young people would be helped.

OP set out in writing what .CAMHS say they will do and what you expect at every appointment. You are your child's best advocate. In my experience CAMHS will do as little as they can possibly get away with.

[April45]

What a negative view of camhs you have raindrops. They can only deliver what they are commissioned to do.

[RaindropsAndSparkles]

Where I live they are commissioned to provide services to 2/3 and 4. When dd was cutting and overdosing they offered nothing the first time and some mediocre counselling the second time after an emergency referral - 10 weeks after they said they would. They also could not provide accurate information.

DD had an underlying Neuro developmental disorder at the root of her issues. It's rather a good job her parents had £5k in addition to what BUPA covered. CAMHS did diddly squat except to be opaque and rude actually.

They complained they were under resourced. Twice we arrived at 9.20 for a 9.30 apt, twice staff were not drizzling into work until 9.15. The phone was regularly not answered at 9.15/4.45. 30 mins a day of 6-8 people adds up to rather a lot over a week 18 hours a week, 72 a month because a 9-5 restrictive service was not even being delivered. How much therapy/assessments does that add up to?

Would you seriously commission more from them April? I wouldn't I'm afraid.

[softkittywarmkitty28]

That might be your experience raindrop but not everywhere is the same.
Here dd is under camhs, she gets seen 3 x a week and I regularly get phone calls after 6pm at night so they work over the 9-5 they are meant to be doing.

[RaindropsAndSparkles]

My advice to anyone using CAMHS is to summarise what is agreed at every appointment in writing and send it back to them special delivery otherwise they say one misunderstood their advice/promises. And copy in their psychiatrist and the GP.

It may be that my area is particularly poor. Certainly our local CAMHS nhas 7 times more complaints than any other unit in the area. A cpl of years ago they repeatedly said dd was fine after an overdose and CD wait for three months after the CAMHS nurse said counselling would be provided in two/three weeks. They were still saying all fine 6 weeks later. 24 hours after our MP returned from holiday there was a volte face. I can only speak as I have found.

[Littleguggi]

I am sorry you hold that view of CAMHS Raindrops, I am only speaking as a CAMHS clinician myself.

[RaindropsAndSparkles]

It's a view formed after personal experience of the CAMHS "service" and Its absolute failure to provide my dd with any adequate support. Not a view based upon ignorance I'm afraid. I have never come across a more incompetent, uncaring bunch of people ever - the laziness was something else. Lost numbers, innaccurate reports, misinformation or no information. All coupled with a complete lack of respect for the patient and carer.

I would not deal with these people again without taking a formal note of every single interaction.

My dd got better only because we could afford private care.

Surrey.

[Littleguggi]

You can not put all of CAMHS into one box and refer to us as 'incompetent, uncaring bunch of people ever'. I for certain entered this career because I care and I know that's true for my colleagues also. Shame on Surrey if that really is how you were treated!

[RaindropsAndSparkles]

Yes It's really how we were treated or my dd wasn't treated.

I don't think it's restricted to Surrey either. I think a 9-5 service that interrupts education due to restrictive and dated hours exists all over the country. CAMHS can't keep pushing clinical issues back to schools, they need to be dealt with by suitably qualified doctors.

I hope too you would have had sufficient request for a client's parent to call them Mrs Bloggs rather than "mum". I am my children's mother, not a CAMHS practitioner's.

I did eventually get an apology out of the CEO, in amongst all the excuses.

Sadly if you go and have a read through child mental health threads you will see just how many families are being let down regularly by CAMHS teams.

[RaindropsAndSparkles]

This is what dd needed btw.

Assessment by psychiatrist
Initial diagnosis of anxiety and depression
(CAMHS diagnosed anxiety and low mood but offered nothing, telling me to find a counsellor off the internet!).
Psychiatrist arranged CBT but it didn't really help.
Psychiatrist prescribed fluoxetine and propranolol.
Regular reviews by psych, lorazepam in case of major escalation (took 2 half tablets in several months)
DD had a crisis (exam time) and A&E referred back to CAMHS as an emergency - said they'd sort out counselling quickly and didn't.
Meanwhile psychiatrist diagnosed ADHD - so much fell into place. Ritalin has worked wonders.
DD gelled with a counsellor she sees if necessary. Hasn't needed to since finishing A'Levels.
CAMHS nurse response to the ADHD diagnosis "well now, I think she's a bit old for that"
Refused access to a doctor.

I can only begin to imagine where my daughter would be now if we'd had to rely on CAMHS. She wouldn't have finished 6th form, she wouldn't have got 4A*'s, she wouldn't have her self esteem intact and her life chances would be significantly impacted

So do please excuse me if I would recommend that all interactions with CAMHS are recorded in writing and reiterated back for the avoidance of misunderstandings. I deal with complex strategic issues every day. I do not misunderstand information and time frames given to me by CAMHS nurses.

If my child has a physical illness there is an initial assessment by properly qualified doctor. When my child had a mental illness she was assessed by a nurse (once by a PMHW) who had to refer her understanding to a multidisciplinary team for a decision to be reached. Only possible to breach the right decision if the right observations were drawn from an assessment and correctly disseminated.

[OneInEight]

Being out of school is only going to further impact negatively on her mental health.

Not necessarily. ds2's mental health has improved since being out of school but really only when we made the final decision to home educate rather than that half-way house of being at home but still on the school register.

[April45]

Gosh I’m sorry to hear you had such a poor experience raindrops. Did you make a complaint??

[newdaylight]

Isn't this thread in danger of getting derailed a little? The OP needs advice, and a long discussion about the ins and outs of whether CAMHS is any good or not wrong help. Raindrops has provided advice from her experience so I'm not sure the need for continuing the tangent.

Sorry for being thread police!! Just felt the OP is getting lost

Op, can you term us what school are doing? Are they simply expecting dd to come in every day and attend normal lessons or have they tried a few different things?

[ihatethecold]

Hi Op.
I feel for you. It’s so tough and heartbreaking.
My dd 14 has had severe anxiety for over a year now. Our first assessment with Camhs last December basically said she’s not bad enough to be seen there. We are now waiting to be seen again. I referred through the gp in Oct. no idea when we will have another assessment. The gp is so frustrated by how slow the process is.
Camhs where we are have been reported as being the worst performing which is comforting!
In all honesty I wouldn’t have been able to work and care for her.
We found her own counsellor privately that she sees once a week.
The gp gave her beta blockers to help with the morning anxiety during the school week.
She was becoming a School refuser and would get in such a state trying to get into school that I considered Home Schooling.
We have had to put everything into trying to get her better, fortunately the school are very good at trying to help her also.

[CloudPerson]

We took our two ds's out of school for this reason (both autistic). For them it was the right thing to do, as being in school for them was intolerable, and they were never going to improve whilst in that environment.
If school is contributing to the issues taking her out, or considering flexi schooling/reduced timetable, might give her the chance to break the cycle.

If you're on FB there's a very helpful group for school refusal, I'll see if I can find the name and pm it to you if you want.
If you're considering HE there are some groups which can advise you on logistics etc.
You could also look into online school.

CAMHS weren't helpful for us at all, and I would say Raindrops' advice is good, ask them how they can better help and have a record of this.
I would also say that lots of people have a negative view of HE, when for some children it is literally life saving. Navigating school, socially and academically, can be nigh on impossible for some children, keeping them in that environment can be far more damaging to their mental health, but obviously it's very individual and down to the family to decide what's best.

[ihatethecold]

Hi op. Me again.
Search Red Balloon. They are a charity based in Cambridge that also do online teaching for kids that can’t/won’t leave the house.
It’s a small organisation but seems to really help children.

@CloudPerson can you pm me the FB group details please?

[RaindropsAndSparkles]

My heart goes out to all the parents who are suffering because the parents do suffer too, they Don't sleep, they may have to reduce hours, they may themselves become ill. This is collateral damage that costs the NHS in tax and further treatment.

If young people got support early on it would prevent escalation and safeguard the wellbeing of their carers. There would be better outcomes for the child, the family, society and the NHS/state.

Littlegug you claim to be a CAMHS clinician can you tell me please who in school can diagnose MH conditions, who in school can refer to a specialist therapist, who in school can prescribe when things get insurmountable?

Also CAMHS clinician, what exactly does that mean? Are you a psychiatrist, a psychologist, a specialist therapist, a counsellor, a nurse, a PMHW? It is a very broad term and I was extremely disappointed to have to interrogate to find out just who my dd was being assessed by and what decisions that person could take independtly at every turn.

As the CAMHS professionals on this thread should know there was a taskforce looking into CAMHS, commissioned by NHS England. It was not commissioned to establish how fantastic CAMHS is.

In my opinion, schools exist to educate, the NHS exists to heal. They need to work collaboratively but they need also to stick to their knitting.

I hope 2018 brings peace, happiness and healing to all your young people.

[TatterdemalionAspie]

Have you considered /could you afford online school, OnAnother? My DD is at Interhigh and they have a lot of students with anxiety who were school refusing. It's not a perfect solution, but it can work very well for some kids.

//www.interhigh.co.uk

[MaisyPops]

raindrops
You've clearly had a bad experience, but having a pop at another user who is stating fact (namely that you can't make generalisations about a whole sector based on your experience) and is trying to help other posters really isn't helpful.

[CloudPerson]

Ihatethecold, I've sent it.

Maisy, unfortunately lots of people don't have positive experiences with CAMHS.
Possibly because we've had a bad experience I see raindrops posts as potentially very helpful, especially to a parent saying they haven't progressed in 8 months.

[MaisyPops]

CloudPerson
I don't doubt there are bad experiences.
As a teacher I've put students forward and had it bounced back because they 'aren't in enough need / the cutting was more a cry for help than an actual attempt'.

The erosion of services in our area means we are spending our school budget employing mental health staff in house.

But you can't go around suggesting a sector is full of an incompetent, uncaring bunch of people ever who are too lazy to do their jobs. That's not really on.