Concerned about the mother and daughter next door

[Shedbuilder]

For the last few years we've had a woman in her late 40s/ early 50s living next door. The daughter is a single woman and doesn't seem to have much of a life beyond her work and looking after her mum, with whom she's always lived. From what she tells us, she's never really had an independent life away from her mother, who's a very dominant and manipulative character.

Over the years the mother's told us loads of stories that have turned out to be untrue and she's often incredibly rude about her daughter, who is a nice woman and beyond dedicated to her. Pre-Covid we saw how the mother controlled her daughter with her demands. If it was a husband-wife scenario, we'd call it emotional abuse.

They've been shielding very strictly for the past year. The daughter is working from home (she works for an accountancy firm) and trying to look after her mum and we know she's up for hours each night looking after the mother because we can see the lights on. We can often hear the mother coughing and being sick and shouting at her daughter. We hear the mother wailing and threatening to kill herself sometimes.

We sometimes see the daughter out in the garden or taking in a shopping delivery and we talk at a distance. There's something about the way she looks and sounds recently, and the things she says, that make me think she's far from mentally well. We phone her a couple of times a week to ask if we can help with the bins or food supplies or a trip to the pharmacy or whatever and she always says no, but wants to talk for a bit and some of the conversations are very weird. And everything always revolves around her mother and her need to cater to her mother's every whim so that nothing bad happens to her.

Today I saw her in her front garden and she looked haggard. She says her mother is barely sleeping, can't eat and demands her attention day and night. She says she thinks she's going mad, trying to do a full-time day job from home and caring for her mum. The mother won't have the doctor or anyone else in the house and interrupted our conversation by shouting for her daughter's help.

We're seriously worried for them both but have no idea what to do. Any advice?

[LouiseTrees]

Do you know which accountancy firm she works for? If it’s one specific one of the biggies they have a BUPA mental health line that’s free to use and I can provide the number. If it’s smaller, do you know if their offices are still open? Does the mother actually need a carer at all or is she just taking advantage? What would she (the mother) have done about care in normal times?

[Shedbuilder]

It's a smaller regional firm —but still quite big around here. I suppose I could suggest to her that she seems a bit stressed and ask her if her company offers any support.

I'm sure the mother needs some care. We've seen her becoming increasingly immobile over the years. Pre-Covid we used to hear quite a lot about hospital visits.

How do you say to an intelligent, capable woman that she seems to be embroiled in an abusive relationship with her own mother? I don't want to say or do anything that's likely to increase the pressure or distress.

[Nat6999]

Could you ring adult social services, the dd might not like it at first but may thank you in the end, she may be able to get dm in respite care at least & have carers to give her some time to get her work done, they may get her doctor to visit & maybe some drugs to help dm sleep so daughter can rest.

[BananaPop2020]

Adult MASH or Social Services or whatever it is called in your area. Details will be on local council website. Well done for stepping up!

[DangerHedgeHog]

Why not invite daughter along for walks to get her out of the house and allow her a breather and some space to chat? Don't venture your opinion just let her socialise and process.

[Shedbuilder]

Thanks for the suggestion of adult social services. I will give them a call and see what they suggest today.

Danger, we have many times invited the daughter for a walk or to join us for a coffee in the garden (when that was permitted) and we've even offered to mum-sit for her so she has a break but she's always said no, her mother doesn't want her out of earshot. Whenever we speak the mother starts calling for her within a few seconds. When the daughter hasn't responded instantly the mother has screamed and shouted louder and louder until her daughter has to stop the conversation. I can only conclude that the mother doesn't want her talking to anyone.

[SuperSange]

That definatley sounds abusive; I'd contact the MASH team as detailed above.

[alwayshappensonnye]

If I remember correctly, adult services will only get involved if the person is willing. It isn't like children's services where you can anonymously report something. I'm not sure where you could turn, hopefully someone will come along with the service who can trigger perhaps a visit or a referral. If she's immobile, perhaps the council or a charity of some sort?

[Time40]

For the last few years we've had a woman in her late 40s/ early 50s living next door. The daughter is a single woman

Is it the mother who's in her 40s/50s, and the daughter is quite young, or is it the daughter who's 40s/50s?

I think I'd tell the daughter that you think she looks very tired, and you know she doesn't get a break. Tell her that you're worried about her, and that you would like to help. It sounds as though she's trapped in this situation and thinks there there is no way out. She really needs some help.

[Shedbuilder]

The daughter is in her late 40s/early 50s, the mother is in her late 70s/ 80s.

I agree they both need help of different kinds and for years we've been gently offering the daughter opportunities for change (offering to look after her mum while she has a day off, offering to take her mum to a lunch club for older people, passing on news of events and support for carers). It's a bit like women who are under the coercive control of a partner — I'm not sure the daughter can see that this isn't a normal or healthy situation to be in. She knows she's not coping well, she's said to me in a half-joking way that she thinks she might be going mad.

It's difficult, isn't it? We know everyone makes life choices and just because hers is different to ours, we don't want to judge. But we've moved from feeling sorry and supportive to feeling that this has slid into something worrying. It makes me wonder how many other adult children are trapped looking after 'difficult' parents on their own in lockdown.

I called ASS earlier and was given a name and number to speak to, but it's just an answer machine. I'll keep phoning.

[Time40]

I'm not sure the daughter can see that this isn't a normal or healthy situation to be in

That's what I was thinking. It happens all too often with single carers of very difficult elderly parents. I've heard a lot of stories like this, from being on a forum about caring for dementia sufferers. As the mum is that age, I wouldn't be surprised if dementia is the problem here, as well as the lack of mobility. It's really common for dementia sufferers to absolutely refuse care from others, but to want the one known carer there constantly.

Maybe if you can make the daughter aware that you know that the situation isn't at all right, that will help her to see that it really isn't normal or healthy.

God, the poor woman. It makes me want to go round there myself and help her out. She's in danger of a breakdown if she doesn't get some help.

[Shedbuilder]

I've left a message on the social services voicemail and I've also found the email address of one of the people who I was told might be able to help, so I've emailed them, but no response. I suppose it's not an emergency and they must be overwhelmed with cases due to Covid.

Time40, my partner and I have been thinking back and between us we've known several women in a similar position, often the only child who seems to be expected to stay at home and look after the parents for her entire life. My partner has a cousin who went off to college 30 years ago, got a degree, came back home for a while while she looked for a job and has never left — and has been caring for first her grandparents and now her parents ever since. We always thought that she'd chosen this life but perhaps she felt coerced into it.

[Time40]

I don't think it's always coercion, Shedbuilder. I mean, I'm sure it is sometimes, but sometimes I think it's the inability to recognise that the parent-child relationship has changed. We grow up with our parents as figures of authority - the biggest and most important authority figures in our lives. Sometimes, I think people don't realise that it's possible to say No to their parents (there's a lot of that written about on here, isn't there, with all those men who upset their wives or partners by not being able to say No to their mothers?)

And as well as the inability to say No, there's also love and guilt. If we love our parents, we want to do our best for them, and make them happy. It's really hard to refuse them what they ask for.

I'm an only child, and I spent 15 years caring for my parents - first of all helping my dad out with my mum, and then caring for my dad. My dad would have loved me to be there all the time - he wanted nothing more. He put a lot of pressure on me, but I resisted because I knew it would drive me insane if I became a full-time carer. Before he became frail and elderly, my dad would never have tried to do that to me. People can get much more selfish and childlike as they age.

I think what can happen in these situations is that both parties are in a sense children - it's like a child being held hostage by a child. In order to make it healthy again, the "child" who is the carer needs to recognise that now he or she is in fact an adult. My dad said that he didn't want and would not accept carers ... I forced him to accept carers - and he did accept them in the end, and quite happily, too.

I'm really worried about this poor woman, Shedbuilder - perhaps because it's a situation that I had to be very strong to avoid being sucked into myself. You're doing a good thing in trying to help. I hope your efforts are successful.

[Shedbuilder]

Glad you escaped. Still nothing from social services. I bounce between worrying and hoping someone can check the situation out to deciding that it's really none of my business. They are both adults — and yet as you say, they both seem vulnerable like children. Very difficult to know what to do.

[Time40]

I think if it were me, I'd just keep talking to the daughter when you see her, and try to find out a bit more about the situation. And I'd keep at social services - with things as they are at the moment, they're probably not going to reply unless you pester them.