Cybex Sirona - 18month old working his arms out of harness

[NuMonoaural]

I bought a Cybex Sirona for the erf safety aspect, but my 18 mo son is managing to work his arms out of the harness every time (no matter how securely, tightly I pull the harness).
Do I need to accept defeat and have him front facing with the restraint bar? Seems a bit useless having him rear facing when he's not actually restrained in his seat.

[ThinkIveBeenHacked]

You are not the first to have this problem with that seat. How long have you had it?

Also, is he wearing any extra layers innthe car which will make for a bit of room for him to wriggle out?

[NuMonoaural]

I've only had it for a few months. Feeling a bit peeved actually that I pay 300 + for a car seat, and he's actually more secure in the bog standard front-facing Maxi-Cosi in my husband's car.

I never put any extra layers on him in the car - vest and long sleeved top normally. I put his coat in the passenger seat, ready for when we get out. Think he's worked out some way of breathing out when I strap him in, and giving himself wriggle room.

Feels a bit pointless buying erf, if I'm having to use forward facing already.

[NuMonoaural]

Just did a search for other houdini children in the cybex and found 11 month old slipping arm out of 5 point harness ERF in Cybex Sirona.

Going to read the instruction manual and check headrest height as suggested.

[Adventuredad]

Sirona is the worst possible choice for a rear facing seat. And you should never ever place your child forward facing in a car seat with shield system, or impact cushion as it's also called. More on that below. What you are describing regarding the harness is actually a parenting issue and has little to do with the car seat. It's a question about simple discipline.

A young creative toddler can get out of the harness without much problem. It's a little easier in a Sirona compared to other seats but no big difference. When a child tries to get out of the harness, or has escaped the harness, there should be immediate action to make sure the toddler understands that this will not under any circumstances be tolerated.

Raise your voice, stop the car, take away the pacifier, hide the favourite toy or blanket, leave the child at home or take other action which you find appropriate and decisive.

A short serious conversation does in my opinion work best. With a gentle reminder every now and then. Works well from 18 months or so. Teaching a child not to escape the harness is nothing different than teaching the toddler not to place hands on the stove, not to drink the cleaning liquid, don't jump down the stairs, careful with matches, etc.

Now over to the Sirona. The seat is made with cheap blow moulding and is in forward facing mode warm and uncomfortable. The rear facing time is also nothing but horrible. It will usually last to 18-24 months RF. The seat a has serious safety issues with huge abdominal pressure, submarining, huge neck loads, chest deflation and rollover ejection.

The shield seats pass ECE R44 testing by using a loophole in the standard since abdominal pressure isn't measured. Todays crash test dummy are more advanced, and ultra expensive, and abdominal sensors are now possible. This will be added to the standard although it will take some time. It will then be very difficult for shield type seats to pass.

Kids should be rear facing to age 4 or longer. If you really must place the child forward facing at age two or three then use a FF seat with a harness. Never place your child forward facing in a car seat with shield or impact cushion system.

[Lung]

Hi Adventuredad. The Sirona is a seat I'm very interested in once my child outgrows its car seat. Where have you found all that information on the testing? Do you have any links I can have a read of?

[Lung]

I'll answer my own question:
Maxi Cosi statement on shield seats: www.maxi-cosi.com/car-seat-safety/car-seat-safety-technology/carseat-shield-system.aspx

United Nations report: www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/doc/2014/wp29grsp/GRSP-55-39e.pdf

The UN report makes for very scary reading.

[Velvet1973]

The problem I have with this though is it is not specific to the individual Sears themselves. The sironas impact cushion is vastly different to those in the test, it does not use the cars own seatbelt for starters so I would imagine it would perform very differently. As the impact cushion is fixed independently of the seat belt system it is fixed more securely against the childs body continually rather than just in the force of an accident. It would therefore also alter the findings regarding the abdominal impact in a crash as you are not having the force of the car seatbelt tightening in an accident.
I wish there were proper independent safety tests that show these results for each seat so that we as consumers make the right decision based on specific factual evidence for the seat we're buying as apposed to basing it on a general test. For us we won't be using the impact shield anyway because we will be using it rear facing until he outgrows it.

[Midori1999]

We have a Sirona and my average sized 3 year old still fits in it safely rear facing. The impact shield wasn't an issue for us as we never intended to use it forward facing anyway.

That said, although I like the Sirona, we also have the Axkid Minikid and I much prefer that seat and it's one of the very few seats on the UK market to pass the Swedish Pass Plus test.

[CathyB9]

Sorry to add to this thread a year later but I'm now going through the exact same situation with my 18m old too. Just wondered what you decided in the end Numonoaural?

[CathyB9]

If you can remember!?

[WhyCantIuseTheNameIWant]

Three things that could help. They have helped my dd, but in several other seats.

No bulky coat or jumper. Put a blanket over child , after straps are tightened.

Make sure straps are slightly above shoulders, not below.

5-point plus. A little waistcoat type thing, the fastens to the seat belt and fits snugly around the child. It takes up a lot of he gap, so they can't get their arm under the strap. About £25, in mothercare or online.