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Really needing some help please.

(22 Posts)
PrincessLayer Thu 10-Sep-09 22:42:49

My eldest daughter has just started in year 5. She is 9 years old. She is bright (on the G&T list), has lots of friends and one of the most highly regarded pupils in the school by the teachers.

Since she was at nursery another girl has picked on her. Just little things, picking the plastic off her hair slides, purposely daubing paint on her clothes etc.

All through school they have been in the same class. The little things are turning into bigger and bigger things.

A couple of years ago she was telling people that I had "hurt her" at nursery. I apparently grabbed her and cut her wrist. I tried speaking to her and said I never touched her and (nursery files if they still have them will back me up) I rarely if ever took my daughter to nursery or collected her. My mum dropped her off on her way to work and my husband collected her on his way home. I suspect she has confused me with a similar looking nursery assistant but she kept on making the allegations.

Regular bouts of bullying continued through the years. In the closing weeks of last term my eldest was hit, kicked, spat at and had her lunch stolen by this girl. The deputy head tried to phone her mother (they live near the school so never takes or collects her) but she said "you only ring me when she's been naughty" and hung up

Sometimes she bullies my very small for her age younger daughter.

First day back on monday and she started again. On tuesday I went in to school and the other deputy head said he would speak to her, keep her in at playtimes if she kept misbehaving etc.

Yesterday was OK, today she was swearing at my daughter.

Tonight my daughter went to the youth club which is at the school. This girl turned up. My daughter was pushed around and called names again.

It's not just my daughter. Other mums have complained yet nothing is done.

I've tried to be reasonable, when her mum split with her partner I put it down to that, when she had another baby I said try and be nice, she's not getting any attention at home, but I've run out of nice now.

She has been physically violent, stolen and lied. She's not got any special educational needs. She's simply horrible.

I've had enough but wonder just how awful you have to be to get excluded.

What do I do? Go above the school and contact the LEA? Social services? Go to the police next time she is assaulted by the girl?

Any advice please. (Apart from speak to the mother, tried that. She said she was just mucking around).

Littlefish Thu 10-Sep-09 22:48:05

Go back to the school and ask to see their bullying policy.

Record all incidents against your dc and quote the bullying policy back to the school.

Do this same at the youth club (I presume they are using the school site, but it is not run by the school).

Although the school will not be able to act on anything which is happening at the Youth Club, you should still make them aware that the bullying is happening outside school as well.

I wouldn't speak to the other mother. Leave that for the school to do.

thisisyesterday Thu 10-Sep-09 22:49:04

my advice would be to go to the LEA and ofsted.

and tpo be totally honest my child would have been out of that school already!
she has been bullied since nursery and you'[ve kept her there????

i am sorry if that sounds harsh, but if the school aren't doing anything then why on earth do you keep sending her?>>

i say this as someone who was severely affected by being bullied at school

clothier Thu 10-Sep-09 22:53:02

This is very concerning and I (as a secondary teacher on maternity leave) would call the headteacher directly (or attempt to) and ask that it be dealt with properly-DO NOT CONTACT THE GIRLS MUM-tell your daughter to stay away from the girl as much as she can and if possible act not bothered when she tries to bully.
Try and keep onside with the school and talk to the girls teacher-do not go above the school until you have exhausted all avenues in school including going in and asking to meet with the head. The school will be pissed off if you do and may not treat your daughter as nicely. Write it all down in a sternly worded letter. Sounds like the girl is a nasty piece of work and don't feel for her in terms of poor home life (which Im sure it is) because she has to learn and a lot of kids with shocking home lives do not behave this way.
Good luck!

PrincessLayer Thu 10-Sep-09 23:57:28


I keep her there because it is a good school. The junior teachers have been amazing and have recognised her abilities and really pushed her.
Apart from this one girl there's not been any real problems. I don't think I should have to send her to a worse school further away.

There are periods when the girl doesn't do too much and is picking on someone else, but my DD is the one she always comes back to.

DD has already decided to go and speak to the head in the morning. I said I would go with her and let her do the initial talking. I've given her a diary and she is writing everything down.

I'll ask about the bullying policy, and maybe sound out some other parents who's DC's have had problems.

PrincessLayer Fri 11-Sep-09 17:01:17

It's not got any better. I didn't see the head, only the teacher again. Would you lot mind giving this letter the once over?

"Dear (headmaster).

I am writing regarding the persistent bullying of my daughter A by XX.

XX has been sporadically bullying A since they were in nursery. You are probably aware that the situation has now become intolerable.

Incidents last term included XX stealing A’s lunch, name calling, swearing, and physical violence including spitting.

I was hoping to speak to you on Tuesday after a further incident where SS was violent towards A but you were unavailable so I spoke to Mr (teacher). He has assured me that the matter will be dealt with, however this does not appear to be the case.

I again spoke to Mr (teacher) following an incident on Thursday night at the Youth Club. I also intend to speak to (youth club leader) about this.

A is a bright and intelligent girl and I fear that her education will be compromised if these incidents continue. As they happen in the classroom as well as in the playground I think it would be a positive step if XX was transferred to a different class.

I have tried to be sympathetic towards XX in the past as I fear she may have some problems in her home life, but as her behaviour is now affecting A’s school and social activities I have no alternative but to make this a formal complaint.

I would also appreciate a copy of your bullying policy.

I await your comments."

Any good?

DoneWithCrying Fri 11-Sep-09 17:46:24

Brilliant letter PL.

I agree, go to the Headteacher and if you are not satisfied with the outcome, take it to the Governors.

Good luck.

Littlefish Fri 11-Sep-09 18:24:59

I would remove the bit about asking for xx to be removed to a different class.

However, I would put in that you look forward to speaking to him within the next week to discuss what strategies and sanctions are going to be put in place to ensure your dd's safety and wellbeing.

It's important to give him/her a timeframe, but also, let them come up with some suggestions for handling it. Moving her to another class simply shifts the problem but doesn't really address it.

Littlefish Fri 11-Sep-09 18:33:17

Sorry - meant to say that the rest of the letter sounds really good smile.

hocuspontas Fri 11-Sep-09 18:39:39

Agree - you could suggest your dd moves to a different class but not the other child.

Good luck with the response

PrincessLayer Fri 11-Sep-09 18:50:04


I thought about the transferring class bit, but though that rather than saying I think she should be excluded from school, that I would offer a solution.
At least in different classes my daughter would be able to get on, and the girl wouldn't spend her class time mouthing insults and trying to hit/kick her every time she walks past.

A time-frame will be good. I hope to get something in place next week as I've got to go away for a week on the 20th so will be leaving this with my mother (and god help them if she starts....)

KembleTwins Fri 11-Sep-09 18:59:18

Think your letter is really good (speaking as a teacher here) - you are polite, but firm, and keep it relevent.

You are getting shortchanged by the school though - you really must insist on seeing the head. Go into school, if you can, or phone, and make sure you get a specific appointment with the head. Does the head have a specific PA or secretary? If so, see that person, and ask for them to jot the time of the appointment down for you, so you "have it in writing" (IYSWIM) If not, then see a secretary, and ask them to do the same. If you are offered another chance to see DD's teacher, politely but firmly turn it down, and say that you really feel it's time you saw the head.

What a pain that you're having to push so hard to get it dealt with - it seems to me that you've done everything right so far and that your DD is doing an admirable job of dealing with a horrid situation.

Hope you get it sorted soon.

PrincessLayer Sat 12-Sep-09 02:22:35

Thanks KembleTwins. I'm immensely proud of my DD and the way she is coping with it all.

I'm contemplating a slight amendment to my letter. Mr teacher is DD2's teacher and I want to keep him on-side so rather than

".. I spoke to Mr (teacher). He has assured me that the matter will be dealt with, however this does not appear to be the case."

I will put
" He has assured me that the matter will be dealt with, and while I believe he has made every effort the situation is still continuing."

I know he has spoken to both the bully and my daughter. My first draft makes it sound like he's promised to do something then not bothered.

tadjennyp Sat 12-Sep-09 02:46:37

That sounds like a great letter and will hopefully get the attention it deserves. At the very least the school should insist that the other girl's mother should come in for a meeting about her behaviour. I would definitely agree that you should document any further incidents with times and dates so that you can be clear about what you are talking about. That always helped me when I was head of year. If she passes rude notes, keep them etc. Good luck with this, as it doesn't sound like this girl has much proper guidance from home and is passing on what she knows unfortunately.

tryingherbest Wed 30-Sep-09 20:54:17

Clothier - why would a school not treat a pupil nicely if they felt the parents had gone over their heads?

I'd expect the school to have a duty of care for all the kids and if they don't they should be made to.

Being hugely niaive - I know..... but it makes me so cross that with many of these threads the parents are having to oh so carefully word letters to get the school 'on side' or not anger them. If there's an ongoing issue I think the parent has a right to write 'oi - there's a bullying problem - SORT IT' style letter.

mychildsachild Mon 02-Nov-09 22:54:28

Dear Princesslayer, I have just logged on for only the second time ever, to see if anyone else is experiencing the same problem I am absolutley choking back the anger and tears that your case is totally morroring mine. My newly year 5 little girl is going through the same thing and I thought I always knew what to do and could handle it but, in making a formal complaint after 4 years of it I have only made it so much worse! the week after my my 9 year old had her head slammed against a wall(and had to consider her behaviour!), there was another incident witnessed by and dealt with perfectly by her fabulous new teacher, the girls mother, without checking her facts first, cornered my daughter inside school and threatened her. She told her that no one believes her and HER daughter never tells lies, and she is always on her side!etc etc. The mother seems to be a carbon copy of your bully's mother apart from a couple of years of drunkenness and new dads!! Thankfully she is now with a new man with a new baby, but how the school and parents don't flag up her behaviour I don't know??!! I had no wish to cause upset to this family but after tonights meeting, where the mother accused ME and MY HUSBAND of "having a go at her" , apparently over a year ago some time?? and then turning on the tears and looking so vulnerable for the new and very one sided deputy head, I am left feeling frustrated at the school for not dealing with it and really scared for my little girl at what is to come. On the last day of half term she was invited to another girls house for tea, this was because the bully girl had told everyone not to speak to her anymore, and my daughters friend was making a point! Wish the school would!!! Any advice legally??? Please let me know how your daughter is doing.x

PrincessLayer Tue 10-Nov-09 18:51:06

Sorry your daughter is suffering mychild. I've come back to bump the thread and ask a bit more advice myself.

OK Off we go again.

I spoke with the headmaster who seemed agrees that XX (bully) is a huge problem. He said they had got extra funding for her and would do this, that and the other to solve the problem.

Problem continued. My daughter has a "secret" way of alerting the teacher when XX is doing something to her in class. Trouble is the TA keeps forgetting and telling my daughter off for using the signal.

Today my poor girl has been pushed off a chair and repeatedly called a "fucking bitch" amongst other insults.

I've gone in again and only got as far as the deputy head (who tbh is a bit of a pompous prick). All he can offer is "When XX is violent/abusive she will be removed from the class". Removing her after the event is not exactly helping.

I've got to go back in tomorrow. What do I say?

I'm trying to get a good speech together in my head and would appreciate a few tips.

PrincessLayer Tue 10-Nov-09 23:38:14

in case there is anyone still up who can help

McDie79 Tue 10-Nov-09 23:54:00

Hi there,sorry you and DD are going through this,Type up all you want to say in a letter,tell head you want him to read it and discuss his response.
I do this when in a confrontation situation as I always,always forget to mention things and given the emotional nature of it would prob burst into angry tears halfway through a big speech

PrincessLayer Wed 11-Nov-09 00:07:45


I have sent a letter and thought for a short while that things were being resolved, but that hasn't been the case.

I really need some "words that strike fear into the heart of teachers".

We've discussed moving classes, however my daughter will not be moved as she is the innocent party and the bully will not be moved as the only other year 5 teacher already has a couple of "challenging" pupils and will not take another one.

I'm fed up with my poor girl being used as a verbal and physical punch bag. I need this to stop.

Callisto Wed 11-Nov-09 13:19:04

Princess - I have no experience myself, but if my DD had been called a 'fucking bitch' (I'm staggered at that btw) and been pushed around I would be taking her out of school, probably for good. However, I must say here that I would happily home educate my DD, and would be if the primary she goes to wasn't excellent.

Other posters on these threads have suggested talking to the police about bullying as bad as this. Also, writing to the school governers etc may help. Have you considered removing your DD from school?

PrincessLayer Thu 12-Nov-09 00:25:46

Well, I listened to dept. head bluster at length this morning. Rather a waste of time really.

I know it sounds awful but generally it is a good school and it is just this one girl causing problems. I have said that I will keep my daughter home if this continues and suffer any consequences.

I am friendly with one of the governors and he admits that reporting to them is pretty much a waste of time (his own daughter has had problems with XX), their meetings are infrequent and everything goes through the head anyway. His advice is to badger them relentlessly, which I am willing to do.

The class has be re-arranged so that my daughter and XX are as far away as possible from each other and facing away, so I suppose that is a start, but I did ask today what does she have to do to get expelled. I have a list at home with a behaviour chart
listing what solicits a warning/suspension/expulsion and she has gone waaaaaaay beyond the expulsion end. All parents were required to sign a good behaviour contract earlier in the year.
And still XX is there.

I do appreciate the replies. Thanks

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