Advice to my 10 yo son from my ex-husband

[Nicknamegoeshere]

My ex-husband told my son over the phone tonight that if someone pushes him or hits him, he should push or hit back in "self-defence."

I'm personally quite horrified at this advice. Son says he knows it's wrong.

Advice please!

[Serenschintte]

I think for boys that’s not actually that bad. There are some good books out there about pre teen/teen boys and friendship dynamite. Standing up for your self is not a bad thing.
I tell my boys they should never hit/push etc first but I will support them if they react to physical violence

[Nicknamegoeshere]

@Serenschintte Really?!! What about for girls then? Would it be the same advice for my daughter?

[Nutrigrainygoodness]

This is what we were always told. Don't make the first move, but if someone hits you hit them back.
I fortunatly never had to put it into practice.

[PacificOcean]

Well, yes, if someone hit my son (or, yes, my daughter) I'd think he was justified in hitting back.

[nimbuscloud]

You know your ex husband is a fucking bollix. He is now starting damage your 10 year old in the same way that your older son is damaged.
Not sure what you can do to mitigate any of this

[Hoglet70]

Personally I would say don't hit first but if someone hits you then hit them back. For boys and girls.

[Nicknamegoeshere]

Agreed. Oh and for clarity I am referring to peers on the playground at breaktimes.

[Fcuk38]

I’ve always told my kids this. You never ever start anything but if someone hits you
First then you defend yourself. I also tell my son that if anyone hits his sister and he witnesses it he is to hit them back on her behalf.

[Nicknamegoeshere]

@nimbuscloud But according to posters so far, his advice is reasonable?

[GooseberryTart]

Nutrigrainygoodness
Totally agree with this.

‘This is what we were always told. Don't make the first move, but if someone hits you hit them back’.

Some kids are very devious and will thump or push another just out of sight of a teacher/dinner lady and will totally deny it and lie.

One particularly nasty but well spoken boy at DS’s primary school would often do this to several weaker boys in his class. He would even hit his eye or bang his face on something to make a mark to blame another child. He was so sneaky. This should never happen but it does.

Ultimately if your son can’t or won’t stand up for himself he could end up being an easy target for bullies.

[itsgettingweird]

"Don't throw the first punch - throw the hardest"

I've always loved this sentiment. Not because I advocate violence in anyway but because I've watched bullies hit and hit and hit and get harder and harder as they get braver and braver because their victim doesn't react.

I also don't agree in fighting. But defending oneself and fighting are entirely different.

My ds was bullied by a lad for months. Kicking him and then claiming it's an accident in football. Bumping into him in the corridor sending ds flying and saying he was pushed into him.

One day he grabbed my ds and he wouldn't let go. Ds shoved him had and shouted get off me. The lad broke his arm as he fell.

He wasn't the big bad bully then. He was actually the laughing stock for being beaten by the quiet shy nerdy kid.

And when all those too afraid to stand up to him before tried to befriend my ds my amazing quite shy nerd told them all they were trying to switch their alliance to the wrong person. He respects true friends. It the ones who cling to the person they think is on top at the time.

[Nicknamegoeshere]

OK. So what about when your sons are young men? Say they're in a pub and someone hits them? What would the police response be if your son hit back but harder? I genuinely don't know the answer to this btw.

[OwlOne]

I agree.

[FelicityPike]

Your other thread agrees with Dad too.

[OwlOne]

[quote Nicknamegoeshere]@nimbuscloud But according to posters so far, his advice is reasonable?[/quote]
I think it's important to let bullies know early on that they have picked the wrong target.

The saying ''don't throw the first punch, throw the hardest'' could spare a child 6 years of being bullied.

My son got in to trouble at school for giving a chinese burn to a boy who'd been stealing his pencil case repeatedly, eating his lunch, moving his stuff, imitating him... My son got in to trouble for this and I went to the school and nodded along, but he knew I wasn't angry with him.

[ComeOnBabyHauntMyBubble]

I'd give the same advice IF DD was being bullied. A random scuffle,argument or accident warrants nothing more than telling the teacher.

[Nicknamegoeshere]

Thanks all. I don't agree but it's interesting to hear other opinions. Maybe I'm seeing it with less clarity as I suffered a lot of abuse / bullying myself from the ex. Perhaps I should have hit him back?

[OwlOne]

@Nicknamegoeshere

OK. So what about when your sons are young men? Say they're in a pub and someone hits them? What would the police response be if your son hit back but harder? I genuinely don't know the answer to this btw.

I think that's a totally different situation.

You're not going to see that person every day for the next six years, You're not going to know all of their friends or they yours.

You ARE old enough if you're in a pub to be charged with assualt.

[OwlOne]

@Nicknamegoeshere

Thanks all. I don't agree but it's interesting to hear other opinions. Maybe I'm seeing it with less clarity as I suffered a lot of abuse / bullying myself from the ex. Perhaps I should have hit him back?

Ah right.

I was abused by my x too so I can see why you feel conflicted.

Do you think that your x sees it as ok to abuse if the person doesn't ''push back''. That the onus is on the victim to not be a victim?

And also, he is giving your son a strategy to bring the abuse to an end, but he perpetrated this treatment on you. He thinks your son deserves more but he mus thave thought you deserved it.

I can see why this is hard :-/

[CaptainCarp]

Is your son having issues with a bully?
I'm siding toward your ex purely because I was bullied for years until one day I saw red & fought back. Didn't completely stop the bullies but made the last year of my high school more bearable.

So I would give the advice to DD or DS if method of ignoring / telling teachers didn't help.

I've not punched anyone in the pub but pushed someone who was in my face / trying to intimidate but I'm 99% sure it would have been classed as self defence.

I can see why it feels so uncomfortable to you as your Ex was abusive.

[Nicknamegoeshere]

Other boy has only pushed my son once, it's not happened repeatedly.

[RoysFrankenstein]

@Nicknamegoeshere

OK. So what about when your sons are young men? Say they're in a pub and someone hits them? What would the police response be if your son hit back but harder? I genuinely don't know the answer to this btw.

I think in some ways learning not to start trouble but to hit back in defence (and only in defence) in younger years can put a child in a better position in this situation. The pub aggressor is often a 'bully', will back off from a 'victim' who stands up for themselves but will continue to be very aggressive towards someone who tries desperately to diffuse the situation. And that goes back to the school bullies and victims.
That's not to say there won't be the drunk/ coked up arseholes who fight people because that's just what they DO but someone who can hit back because they have before is likely to come off better in that situation also so I lean towards hit back in that scenario too.
Although I'm taking your post at face value and don't know any of the back story so it could be very different given your circumstances. As you also asked whether as a victim of DV you should have hit back- no. Of course not but you were in a relationship and dynamic of trust, intimacy and in a position of vulnerability that's not the same as a playground/ pub etc dynamic. You trust and (presumably) love a partner and the betrayal of that is very different.

[ComeOnBabyHauntMyBubble]

@Nicknamegoeshere

Other boy has only pushed my son once, it's not happened repeatedly.

Then that's stupid , lazy advice with a "show him you're a man" shit cherry on top.

All it'll do is get your son in trouble too, especially if the response is disproportionate. I suggest you remind your ex that if that is to happen, you'll make sure he'll be the one to explain it to the school.

[CaptainCarp]

@Nicknamegoeshere

Other boy has only pushed my son once, it's not happened repeatedly.

That's different 1 push doesn't constitute bullying in my eyes so a different situation.

It wouldn't be a 1st port of call at all but if a Child needed to get someone away I wouldn't tell them off about a punch / push.

On the flip I warn DSS who has developed a habit of lashing out when they don't agree with someone that someday he might come up against someone that will hit him back harder. This is alongside a talk on why hitting shouldn't be normalised.
Unfortunately DPs ex lets it happen along with name-calling so it's a bit brick wall

[itsgettingweird]

@Nicknamegoeshere

OK. So what about when your sons are young men? Say they're in a pub and someone hits them? What would the police response be if your son hit back but harder? I genuinely don't know the answer to this btw.

You can use self defence.

I'm simple terms of someone is
Physically assaulting you you can fight back to defend yourself if it's proportionate.

But if someone hits you and walks away and then you run at them and attack them from behind you've also committed assault as you were not defending yourself at the time.