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guess who it is again!!!!

(36 Posts)
starlover Sat 11-Jun-05 19:27:20

meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!

Ok... have been using the domperidone with fantastic results.

Now the problem is that DS is just refusing POINT BLANK to b/f. If I so much as SHOW him a boob he screams!!!

I have thought about just not giving him a bottle. GOing cold turkey and just keep offering breast.... but am scared he will just scream and scream and not take anything.

Is it a reeeeeeeeally bad idea... or could it work? I am trying to offer the breast at each feed, and even between feeds... but to no avail...

Any other ideas?

tiktok Sat 11-Jun-05 23:38:02

Not normally a good idea to 'insist' in this way, star.....your fears that he may just become hungry and distressed are well-founded. What about skin to skin, co-bathing, gentle ways to persuade and encourage....? Good luck

mears Sun 12-Jun-05 00:32:52

Agree with tiktok - needs gentle persuasion to go back on breast. If he is still refusing what about giving him a partial feed with bottle then cuddling him in skin to skin. He needs to know it is a lovely place to be but he won't co-operate if starving hungry. Defo try feeding in bath..

starlover Sun 12-Jun-05 09:35:52

ok will try the bath later. and then perhaps spend monday morning in bed with him and see how we go!

thank you

busyalexsmummy Sun 12-Jun-05 23:08:11

You may find your ds is just not a boob baby, seriously, my ds would not b/f and would scream the street down if i got them out, ended up giving ebm then formula after a week. my cousin has just had a baby girl and has had same problem, baby just will not latch on, she had ended up giving her ebm in a bottle. i really beleive that some babies will just not go for it, I would of challenged any m/w / b/f counceller etc to try and get my ds on the breast, he wasnt having any of it.
tbh, if your ds is currently using the bottle, it is unlikely(possible, with a LOT or perserverence and patience)that he will go on the breast. hope it works out for you x

pupuce Sun 12-Jun-05 23:14:02

As a BF counsellor I have witnessed this 3 times in a week!!!!
One of the mums has tried rebirthing at the suggestion of the lactation consultant... it was amazing!
I am due to try it with one of the other 2 mums....
I am not sure what sort of birth you had but I have to say the baby we tried this with was born by difficult labour/c-section and it really was fascinating to see the baby crawl at the breast.
You need another adult to help you do this but I recommend it!

colditz Sun 12-Jun-05 23:34:47

What about.. (just a vague idea, sorry if it's ignorant..)

Covering your nipples in milk? He might want a taste if he can smell it?

JulieF Sun 12-Jun-05 23:44:12

I had 1 month of total refusal with ds. I ended up expressig and feeding ebm from an infant cup. At one point I thought it was never going to happen but with perseverance and the right support it can be possible.

We went through the whole shebang, skin to skin, re-birthing, dripping ebm down my breasts. It was a very slow process.

Onoe thing the bfc made clear was that as soon as the whole thing distressed me or ds then give the ebm. We had to work first on getting him to accept being near to my breast without hysteria, then work on getting him to latch on, and finally trying to get him to actually suck.

pupuce Mon 13-Jun-05 09:12:14

Julie - very interested in your story - how old was your baby? Was it refusal from birth?
Did you ever give a bottle of EBM or just a cup?
Our lactation consultant has asked all 3 mothers to give bottles of EBM as she said babies must suck.

starlover Mon 13-Jun-05 10:29:09

the problem isn't that he isn't a boob baby... he was b/f successfully up until several weeks ago when i started giving bottle due to a really nasty bout of thrush.

I then had supply issues and lost a lot of confidence in my ability to b/f him.

I do now feel that I am producing enough for him, but he is now refusing breast!!!

I am not sure whether to just stick with bottle now or what. He was bottle fed from birth, for a week or so before I started b/f... so i know it is possible to do it...

The other day he did latch on and suck, but only for a few seconds and then he got cross because there wasn't much there (had just been expressing!)

starlover Mon 13-Jun-05 10:29:38

have tried squirting the milk into his mouth... he stops crying and swallows it... but won't acytually latch on!

starlover Mon 13-Jun-05 10:30:35

julief... what did you do to get him to latch on?
i can calm ds down so that he is in position and being reasonably content... but the moment i try and get it in his mouth it's all screaming again!

JulieF Mon 13-Jun-05 11:46:07

Sorry in a huge rush so will answer in full later but it was refusal from 5 days old. My bfc advised not to give a bottle until he had learnt to b/f which is why I used the special infant feeding cups.

It was a long process lasting a month until he started to feed effectively using lots of different techniques, none of which seemed to work at first but evebntually it all; clicked.

Will post more later.

starlover Tue 14-Jun-05 12:29:23

what confuses me is that he KNOWS how to b/f... and he knows there is milk there... but he just won;'t take it!

How do I persuade him to latch on???

chipmonkey Tue 14-Jun-05 22:11:34

starlover, did you ever try nipple shields?

starlover Tue 14-Jun-05 22:19:19

yeah, didn't get on with them at all. ds didn't mind them being there... but couldn't latch on properly as they were sooooooooooooo long!

starlover Wed 15-Jun-05 09:22:19

urgh... stopped taking the domperidone and milk supply has dropped right back down again. So looks like this is it!

I feel really sad again now

pupuce Wed 15-Jun-05 13:18:47

What about feeding EBM by bottle?

tiktok Wed 15-Jun-05 13:32:42

star - you asked again on Monday and Tuesday how to persuade him to go back to the breast, but mears and I had made some suggestions two days before. It is likely to take a few days of these before you can be sure they are not working. Try them and see

mears Wed 15-Jun-05 13:48:27

You can take more Domperidone if you felt it helped. Agree with Tiktok, it will take time. Are you giving feeds from a bottle? If so, have you tried starting feed with bottle then slipping it out and offering breast instead? Ideally it would be best to avoid bottles altogether and give EBM by cup but that is something you feel you do not want to start now. Have you contacted a B/F counsellor? Did you try feeding in the bath? Did you try a few days of skin-to-skin in bed?

Something which had success in the old days but maybe worth a try just to get used to being near the breast was holding bottle teat over nipple to get baby sucking, then slipping it away if possible. Wondered if that might be an option since nipple shields were rejected.

starlover Wed 15-Jun-05 14:53:23

yeah tried bathing, and skin-to-skin. I only stopped taking the domperidone for one day and have gone from getting 160ml a time, to about 90!

I was able to express enough for about 3 bottles a day... but so far I have only made 1.5 bottles today.

I don't know really what to do. I can't take keep expressing, it's doing my head in. Plus, I am using a hospital pump which is costing loads of money.
I tried hand expressing but wasn't very sucessful.

He is still refusing breast, but will try him again with a bottle teat perhaps. I did try to trick him by slipping boob in mid-feed... but he just screamed!

I am jsut paranoid now that I am not ever going to produce enough milk. The other thing is that while I was on the domperidone he seemed to be quite sicky on the ebm i gave him... but now i stopped taking it he is fine... so don't really want to keep on with it if it's making him ill!

Argh, i know it sounds like i am just making excuses for it... but i do really want to b/f.. it just seems so unattainable right now though.

If i am doing skin-to-skin, or having a bath with him and he refuses breast, should i just give him his bottle?

tiktok Wed 15-Jun-05 15:53:23

star, only you can decide when enough is enough....but it will take time, and you may need to do several co-bathing sessions (don't force him....the point of the co-bathing is not to 'get him to feed' but to enable him to do so relaxed and happy, if he shows signs. Just chillin' out next to the breast without crying is a step forward). Expressing only works to build supply if it is done 6-8 times min a day - anything less, and the milk suppply dwindles. Skin to skin is more of a 'lifestyle change' than a thing to do to test it for a bit.....your little one may need skin to skin for hours for days, to recreate his good feelings at the breast.

I don't think the presence of the drug will make any difference to his sickiness on ebm, BTW.

It is so hard, and you may decide it is too hard. Either way, you have to do what feels right for you, and we will support you!

starlover Wed 15-Jun-05 16:05:42

thanks tiktok... i just get so tired of never being able to go out because i have to express.
He's been on bottle now for about 6 weeks I think, so I don't think he really will go back on the breast tbh.

i was expressing every 2 hours at one point, and my supply still didn't increase... i think i have just lost faith in the whole thing!

it sucks because i feel so guilty for stopping b/f... it's like i had it all right and then i stopped. And even though DS is very healthy and happy and how he is fed is hardly the most important thing in the world it still upsets me because I had planned to breastfeed and now i can't! iyswim

I don't want to just say this is it, i'm giving up... because then i will regret it... i don't think i know what i want really! I did just have some skin to skin time with him and he fell asleep snuggled into me.

I think also, i am unsure what to do if i do get him back on the boob. Do i drop bottle completely and just keep feeding him til my supply increases? or do i b/f and then top up with formula?

tiktok Wed 15-Jun-05 17:03:42

You can still do all the snuggly things with the bottle!! I wish people would - it would soften the blow sometimes, because that's what they miss sometimes ie the idea of the closeness, not the health benefits which you can't really see or feel!

Expressing is a total bore, I agree. It leaves very little room for a life

It's not possible to say if you can drop formula, or at what rate - this is so individual. Some people decide to give themselves a couple of days off from angsting about it - just feed him in a way that keeps him happy, give him the same cuddles and snuggles as you would if you were bf, and then see what you feel like after that. It might clear up for you a bit, if you take some deserved time out from worrying about it.

mears Wed 15-Jun-05 17:03:53

|link{http://www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/baby/back-to-breast.html\this link might help}

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