Fussing at breast...fast let down or not enough milk?????

[suwoo]

Me again!

I really can't tell why DS is fussing. My assumption was not enough milk but he is showing some of the signs described if you have fast let down.

I am using a supplemental nursing system and am taking domperidone to increase my supply. He doesn't fuss when I use the SNS which is why I think its not coming out fast enough.

I still feed him every 2 hours during the day and he feeds very actively now, how long might a feed last at 11 weeks?

When will this feel easier?

[tiktok]

suwoo - babies fuss sometimes.

It usually means nothing.

It's great he is feeding actively.

He's doing ok in all other ways, yes?

Then probably just a 'thing' he's going through...not worth micro-analysing

Feeds at 11 weeks (or at any other age!) can last anything from x minutes to y minutes

[suwoo]

When I say fuss, I mean scream . I micro analyse everything! He's still only 1lb over birthweight which maybe explains the over thinking.

He just screamed again when I tried to feed him and since I took him off he did 3 burps .

Tiktok, could I be 'forcing' him to feed every 2 hours? Is he capable of going longer now?

Thanks, as always.

[tiktok]

suwoo - it's a judgement call. No one can say if your baby is 'capable' of going longer between feeds. Sorry!

[suwoo]

My capability to judge is all but gone tiktok .

What I'm asking is if its ok that he goes 3 or even 4 hours now? He is still only 1lb over birth weight so am I still supposed to be shovelling it in as it were?

My feeding advisor is off sick so I can't ask her.

Also, he feeds much better when we are lying down and the breast is 'dropped' into his mouth, why might this be?

Really, really struggling now to keep motivated.

[tiktok]

suwoo....sorry you feel this way

No one can tell you on an internet board if it's 'ok' to go 3-4 hours now. How could they? They can't see you, only know something of your history...it's best for someone in real life to help you with these precise questions.

However, most 11 week olds need feeding more often than the 6-8 times in 24 hours that 3-4 hourly would mean. This is prob especially the case with small babies whose weight gain has been slow.

He feeds better one way than in other ways - that's ok! This applies to most babies. They develop a preference. No big deal

What's at the heart of your difficulty in being motivated? And is there no one doing the work of the advisor who's off sick?

[suwoo]

Thanks tiktok, the voice of reason. I have left a message on her answer machine but she knows the history, which as you say is better than discussing it with strangers.

I don't think I mean 4 hourly all day, but occasionally if he's asleep for example. I have been waking him to feed and this is when he has been screaming and making gurgling noises like I'm choking him . This is what made me think he may not actually be hungry.

The heart of my difficulty is him screaming when I try to feed him. Also the panic about not having enough milk. He feeds fine when I use the SNS, but it is a real faff and I am having trouble managing my toddler at the same time.

[tiktok]

It's not a good idea to try to feed when he's screaming, suwoo....can easily understand how difficult this is.

he needs to calm down first - can you do this, keeping him close/in a sling, and then try again 20 mins later or so?

[suwoo]

He is calm until I try to force feed him . Will use my judgement like you say and not panic if its longer than 2 hours. He's been asleep now for over an hour and not fed since 7.30.

I'm not worried now about him being dosy or anything, he is very alert now. He put on 2 oz last week and 12 oz the week before. I am dying to try a week without the SNS, but won't do that until I've had him weighed this week.

[thaliablogs]

SuWoo, what kind of SNS are you using? I found the Medela one a horrible faff and couldn't bear seeing my hard won breast milk dripping out of it rather than into DD's mouth! My current bfc showed me a home made set up with a syringe (which I can buy on the internet) and a feeding tube (which you need to get from a midwife or bfc, i was surprised to find they are simply not available to the public). I can control the speed of the flow much better that way and it felt less awful than the medela thing did with DD, I'm using it at about 50% of feeds with DS now and it works pretty well.

Re the fussing, it sounds to me more like low supply than over supply given the history, but as tiktok says, impossible to tell. If breast compressions aren't working, then I think you need the SNS at those feeds to make sure he's getting enough.

I find it impossible to feed every 2 hours since each feed takes an hour and I express afterwards, but I know others differ. If he is taking a chunk from the SNS I would have thought you could go 3 hours but prob not more than that. Personally I'd go a bit longer with the SNS and get some weight on him so that you then don't have to worry so much about every feed because you will know he's growing and he's got some fat on him.

Hang in there. This is really hard but it won't go on forever.

[suwoo]

Hi Thalia, yes its the Medela one and mostly I don't find it too horrendous, but some days I could cheerfully throw it out of the window.

I am very interested to hear more about the system you are using, have you got any links? How come you need to supplement if you don't mind me asking? I am using formula as I just couldn't fit the pumping in aswell as manage the other two kids and nursey/school runs etc.

I only use the SNS at 3 feeds a day and he feeds beautifully at night. I reckon this is because he wakes up when he is hungry.
He has one breast which he hates, so I tend to use the SNS on that side as he takes the other side ok.

[suwoo]

Come back Thalia, I need to know about your tube and syringe set up.

[thaliablogs]

suwoo - sorry I didn't recheck the thread! I'm using this syrige, and a naso-gastric feeding tube which isn't available online as far as I can find (and I'm a bit of a google-expert so think I would have found it). Midwives can get them. My bfc got them for me, I had to pay £1 a tube, I use the same tube for about a week then throw it away, I sanitise the tube and syringe in between feeds by flushing w boiling water.

i have to supplement because I have low supply. It's not 100% clear why I do, but my guess is I have IGT (insufficient glandular tissue). My boobs are not an extreme case of tubular shape, but there is a substantial size difference between them, which is common with IGT, and the right one in particular is long, and there is a big gap between them on my chest (boy I sound really attractive!). I take domperidone and pump like a demon to get my supply up. With my daughter, 2 years ago, I never got her completely off formula but managed to make it only 1-2 formula top ups every 4-5 days at my best. She had a top up in a bottle after every feed because I gave up on that awful medela thing which made me cry. I would pump while giving her the bottle.

With my son, now (he's 14.5 weeks) I saw a very good bfc straight after he was born, and she showed me this new SNS set up and I decided to give it a try. It was very faffy for the first few days but now I really have the hang of it. And he is getting a lot less top up, and all top up is breastmilk, than my daughter, and he's a big lad too - 16lbs at this point - she was only about 12. I don't use the SNS in teh middle of the night and can often skip it at breakfast, too, but by the end of the day I think he gets at least half the feed from it.

My experience is why I posted that quite blunt comment on one of your earlier threads.I know how bloody miserable it is to have a baby who isn't gaining weight (my daughter stayed at the same weight for 3 weeks) and to worry you are starving your baby while desparately wanting to breast feed. It sucks.