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New here...need breastfeeding advice PLS...

(16 Posts)
honeyshrimp Mon 05-Oct-09 22:53:44

I really need some advice....I am ready to give up!
Long story short, I have brastfed 3 so far with no trouble. No #4 doesn't have a strong suck and wasn't gaining weight. His suck is weird on my pinky and AVENT nipple as well. His tongue does not extend forward but pediatrician says no tongue tie. Lactation consultant told me to give him formula which I did (stupid should have trusted my instinct.)
Now he will only nurse at night. Fusses and screams at breast if he is awake and my supply is going downhill. Sometimes he will latch on for a couple of sucks before he gets mad.
i have pursued and been disappointed with several poplar resources. I live in a fairly small town and hate to give up but I am almost there.
ANY ideas at all are appreciated. thanks so much.

moaningminniewhingesagain Mon 05-Oct-09 23:00:55

Would suggest another review of the possible tongue tie to start with, it sounds like you have breastfed successfully before and feel the latch isn't right?

Is there another lactation consultant or La Leche group you could see for more help in person? And keep offering the breast even while giving some formula, if there is a fixable issue there's every chance you could get back to fully breastfeeding soon.

Would expressing and giving EBM by bottle be a short term option to keep supply going and make sure baby is getting some breastmilk? And well done for perseveringsmile

MoonlightMcKenzie Mon 05-Oct-09 23:04:22

What's an AVENT nipple? - Is it a breast shield?

You need to get some expert help. Do you have the helpline numbers?

Try to express a little in between feeds until you get some rl help.

FeatheredHeart Mon 05-Oct-09 23:06:59

Me too - second opinion on the tt. Can't think what else would cause a bad latch. We had same symptoms as you. Note that a mild tt can still cause significant problems.

Jack Newman very helpful in Canada. He has good books, but you're probably in more of a hurry so still loads of information on his website and he may well reply to an email directly with relevant bits of what he's written. He replied to me in seconds with pointers to what he's already written and attached relevant extracts.

Try the breastfeeidng helplines, I got v good support from the Assoc B/f Mothers helpline when midwives, hv, paediatricians were no help at all (tongue tie issue).

honeyshrimp Mon 05-Oct-09 23:24:19

thanks so much, he's in tomorrow for second opinion on tongue tie....
he's had some bottles so i am still wondering about nipple confusion? and he latches on fine at night so is that consistent with tongue tie?
it was always so easy with the others. i can't believe it could be so difficult now.

honeyshrimp Mon 05-Oct-09 23:28:09

also, didn't know if it was ok to mention LLL. i called several times and they seemed to be reading me stuff i had already read on their site. local leader was helpful but never followed up and wouldnt answer texts/calls.

tiktok Mon 05-Oct-09 23:43:49

Are you in the UK, honeyshrimp?

If so there are several other bf organisations you can call.

Can you give more info?
How old is your baby? What is the weight and weight gain? When did he start having formula? How much does he have now?

honeyshrimp Tue 06-Oct-09 00:42:26

he is 8 weeks.
born 7lb 8oz. 1st week down to 6lb 14 oz.
2nd week up to 7lbs 3oz.
weeks 3-5 no gain.
weeks 6-7 started formula 2-3 bottles. 8 oz EBM 4 OZ formula.
nope I am stateside...have called LLL and Nursing Mothers counsel, same info that is not helping!
tried several positions, still he will only latch on and stay that way during the night.

tiktok Tue 06-Oct-09 08:39:15

honeyshrimp - I think the use of formula may have been justified, you know....if fixing the breastfeeding was not working and you were unable to get large amounts by expressing, your baby needed something and the risk of him having nothing is that he lacks the energy to suck at all, and the breastmilk dwindles

However, he is only having 4 oz formula which is good. Are you expressing often? You need to, to protect the milk supply.

Honestly, I think this is a difficult and quite complex situation. Someone needs to investigate why your baby seems unable to suck properly (is that still the case? Or does he suck well at night?) - there are many oral anomalies apart from tongue tie which you say has been ruled out.

Would you return to the lactation consultant, I wonder? Or was she not very good?

VirginiaLoveGlove Tue 06-Oct-09 09:57:56

Is it possible to try out the exaggerated attachment seen in this PDF on pg 9 / 10.

It may be worth having having a good oral review of your baby's mouth for other anomalies including tongue tie again. Maybe with a different pediatrician.

I don't know much about how to source a more baby friendly / breastfeeding friendly paediatician in the US but the website has a lot of breast feeding mothers. You will have to join in order to view this link: which may have someone listed near you. If not, start a thread and ask as it is a v big forum so someone may be able to help.

honeyshrimp Tue 06-Oct-09 16:02:39

ok, thanks so much for the help.
I know I had to give him formula....I just wish that had been the last resort and not the first answer to the problem.
The LC told me on the phone that I didn't have enough milk and to give him formula. My issue was that she never watched me try to feed him or anything before telling me that.
The pediatrician does not seem to know much about breastfeeding. I know that is common but its still frustrating.
We are going to back to the doc today but seeing a different one....maybe she will have some insight.
it is so weird.....the only bottle he can suck is the orthodontic nipple and he still just kind if laps it up instead of sealing onto it. It takes forever to feed him. Only my husband bottle feeds him....I use a syringe.
Anyway, thanks so much again. We'll see what they say today.

VirginiaLoveGlove Tue 06-Oct-09 16:16:57

that LC sounds like a dud. can you phone the LL people and ask them to recommend a paed. in your area who is bf friendly?

FeatheredHeart Tue 06-Oct-09 22:03:59

Agree with getting an oral review, not just tt second opinion. Try to get them to feel the suck on a finger if possible as you did.

Plenty of babies do nurse more at night. I was up every hour or two hours last night form 9pm - 6am with my 5 month old if. But there is a problem there re the weight loss.

I've tried exagg attachment when pain from tt was excruciating and did find it good to ensure he sucked better. YOu basically don't just aim the nipple upwards, you aim it almost backwards into the mouth and flick it in. Then they get a really good wodge of boob and not just nipple.

By the time our tt was seen to I think my son had started to feed badly and I was in pain on one side for months (still am, though less). Time can fix some of these things, if no one else can help you (e,g, no experts nearby). This is why i contacted Jack Newman. So you may decide to persevere with mixed feeding and he may just learn / decide to nurse during the day. 5 months later, my son nurses better but still oddly. I never weighed him though as I got really obsessed with weighing the first one and have been going on how he looks and how others say he looks. Haven't had any weight loss issues though.

I would've thought you'd probably have bad pain from a tt but I don't think you mention it. And if he nurses ok at night, no I wouldn't say it's consistent with tt.

It's pot luck with the helplines - some volunteers are brilliant, some not. You often get different people, so i'd keep trying. Maybe video part of a feed and send it to them - ask them to send it round their volunteers for for advice / feedback. Be sure to mention you've already fed 3 succesfully.

"LC told me on the phone that I didn't have enough milk and to give him formula. My issue was that she never watched me try to feed him or anything before telling me that." Forget and ignore him / her. Totally ludicrous. "YOu don't have enough milk" is defeatist, demeaning, and gives no explanation. Very few women as I understand it just "don't have enough milk". We are biologically designed to be able to feed twins if necessary! Usually it's a question of sth wrong with the suck or the women gives a substitute / puts the baby to the breast infrequently that causes diminishment of supply.

When you've fixed the problem, if you want to decrease formula, increase frequency at the breast and try a Supplementary Nursing Sytem (SNS), e.g. from Medela. I restarted bf my first after 5 weeks totally dry and taught myself to use this and my top tip is breastfeed the baby first THEN use the SNS until they don't want any more formula from it. If he will feed that way if definitely beats syringe feeding - he stimulates the breast, you get to b'f him and he gets forumla from the SNS.

honeyshrimp Thu 08-Oct-09 23:01:51

well....update sort of....
took him to pediatrician who referred us to a feeding clinic.
not sure what that is exactly but they said they would research...then called back and read me exactly what i've already read on Google.
he was only 8lb at weight check and he is 2 months old!!!
can't get ped office to call back. i was upset and nurse i think mistook it as rude and slammed the door right in front of my baby!
i am considering taking him to the ER. so upset. don't know wht to do anymore but getting really worried.

annalouise19 Thu 08-Oct-09 23:07:16

Try some Mama Tea "New Mama" tea for breastfeeding. It contains three types of herbs which help with milk supply and production! Not easy - my first one started biting me around 6 months, so I gave up then!

VirginiaLoveGlove Fri 09-Oct-09 14:34:26

seriously. ring the Dr Jack Newman Clinic in Toronto. Google it. I cannot believe how out on the limb you are being left here. Do you mind telling which state you are in?

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