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Why does my 2 week old fuss and push away at the breast in the evening?

(35 Posts)
HeinzSight Tue 01-Sep-09 10:30:22

There def seems to be a pattern forming in the evenings.

I latch her on and within a few seconds she's pulling her head away and pushing with her hands.

Is this normal?

tiktok Tue 01-Sep-09 10:36:11

Can you give a few more details, HeinzSight?

Weight and growth of your baby

When this started

If you have had any bf problems

What happens after she's had this fussing and pushing session?

HeinzSight Tue 01-Sep-09 10:48:28

She was 9lb 6oz at birth, lost 150oz and as of last Monday was 100oz off her birth weight

HV coming today to weigh her.

She feeds really well during the day, but after about 6pm she becomes really fussy. I latch her on but she keeps trying to pull off onto the end.

I try switching sides, doing cradle hold or rubgy hold.

It's almost like something is keeping her going. She can be awake for 4 hours, but tryign to sleep then getting upset.

I've been giving her Infacol for a week now but still struggle to get wind up. She farts like you wouldn't believe!

This is baby No 4 for me and it's the first time I've managed to breastfeed!!!

HeinzSight Tue 01-Sep-09 10:50:07

Oh forgot to say, I have a horrendous crack on the end of one of my nipples. I've been using Lansinoh and nipple guard/airer things you wear in your bra. It's pretty deep. sad

suwoo Tue 01-Sep-09 10:57:48

Oh sorry to hear this Heinz- keep going, we're doing so well grin.

DS does this a bit although no wind. My understanding was that they can do this when the milk flow slows down and they have to work harder to get it- that seems to be the case for DS anyway.

Good to see tiktok is here, she'll sort you out. DS is still 10 oz smaller than his birth weight nearly 5 weeks ago.

tiktok Tue 01-Sep-09 10:59:51

Thanks for the details, Heinz

I think there may be stuff that would be helped by exploring with an experienced bf counsellor.

You don't say how many times she feeds in the day/night. Also, what are her nappies like? Do you routinely offer both breasts (at least) at every feed? When you say 'last Monday' do you mean a week ago? Or yesterday? Why do you think she is 'windy' - could she simply be wanting more contact, cuddles, feeds?

HeinzSight Tue 01-Sep-09 11:03:36

Hi suwoo smile

Her nappies are wet, but dark coloured. Is that normal? She did a poo yesterday adn the day before. But can go a few days without going. It's mustardy coloured.

I do offer both breasts. I try and keep her on one side for as long as poss, then let her have the other side.

Re wind, I'm just wondering, if she's 'trumping' so much, does that mean she has wind that could have been brought up earlier?

Yes, last Monday ie the 24th.

tiktok Tue 01-Sep-09 11:19:42

Heinz, then I think it's good your HV is coming to weigh her.

A few days without a poo is unusual in a baby of this age, and can be linked with poor weight gain...it's always a sign to investigate the effectiveness of the feeding, anyway.

Urine is not usually dark coloured in a baby - you need to bring that up with the HV, too.

How many times does your baby feed in 24 hours?

HeinzSight Tue 01-Sep-09 11:37:30

most days at least 8. But some feeds take over an hour.

HeinzSight Tue 01-Sep-09 11:40:00

when I say her urine is dark, you can just about see it in the nappy. She was suffering with jaundice, but the midwife last week said she thought it was gone.

tiktok Tue 01-Sep-09 12:39:00

The dark urine is associated with jaundice, 'tis true.

8 x in 24 hours is really the minimum no. that most mothers/babies need to build up and maintain a milk supply. Feeds lasting more than an hour are normal for newborns, too, by the time you have factored in the messing about, nappy change, comfort and change-of-mind, though prob a more usual pattern is many 'visits' to the breast which are not really describable as 'feeds' with a beginning, middle and end!

To be honest, I'm trying to explore if the fussing and pushing you describe are the result of your baby maybe reacting to a less than stellar milk supply (which is simply addressed by making the bf more effective with more bf and better attachment at the breast)...still can't be sure. So a good chat with the HV, the weighing, and maybe an encounter with a bfc, will all help.

All may of course be just fine

HeinzSight Tue 01-Sep-09 12:43:10

hv just left.

Imogen has lost 80g sad since last Monday. trying not to feel too disappointed. HV was very reassuring and said sometimes bf newborns have a delayed weight loss then start to pick up again. Would you agree?

She was quite big at birth, does this have a bearing? She's gone from the 97th centile at birth to the 75th today.

HeinzSight Tue 01-Sep-09 12:46:58

so she's 120g off her birth weight at 2 weeks and 5 days old.

tiktok Tue 01-Sep-09 12:49:59

Sorry you're feeling down, Heinz.

I dont agree with the HV. Delayed weight loss of the type you daughter has - loss after a period of gain - is not normal and I would be asking the HV on what planet it is normal! Weight gain sometimes slows down or even plateaus, but a frank loss like this in a baby of 1-2 weeks should never be dismissed. Has she given you no advice at all?

Of course sometimes scales can be wrong.

It is also normal for big babies not to remain big, but not via a clear weight loss like this in the absence of any obvious illness.

What did she say about the wees and poos?

HeinzSight Tue 01-Sep-09 12:53:56

she said to not let her go for longer than 3 hours without a feed. DD slept for about 4 hours yesterday when we were out. Then again slept for 5 hours between midnight and 5am. She occasionally does this, but mostly feeds frequently during the night. We co-sleep.

HV is coming back on Friday to weigh her again. Could it be the scales? Different scales to one midwife used.

tiktok Tue 01-Sep-09 13:14:37

I'd agree you need to be working on getting more breastmilk into her, and intervals of 4 and 5 hours are obv not helpful in this, so it's good to ensure the intervals between feeds are short. Obv a baby who's piling weight on can have the occasional 4 or 5 hr gap, no prob.

Yes, diff scales can make a difference.

It's good she's coming again.

Did she say nothing about wees and poos?

Frequent feeding may address the issue, whatever it is

suwoo Tue 01-Sep-09 13:18:46

We saw 4 HCP's last week over DS's slow gain. Two sets of scales were 20g different- which is quite a lot when it comes to babies weights I think. I have fed DS 5 times today in 6 hours, so 8 doesn't sound many feeds Heinz.

Tiktok, you are wonderful with all your help and advice. I think I may need you again when DS has his weigh in tomorrow.

tiktok Tue 01-Sep-09 13:32:09

Happy to help if I can, suwoo

HeinzSight Tue 01-Sep-09 13:56:18

I have been feeding DD since 12. Switching sides, lying her down to wake her up. I've also stripped her off down to her nappy.

This is quite a regular thing.

Would this be classed as one feed or a cluster?

She also did a poo. So that's three days in a row.. Does that sound promising?

suwoo Tue 01-Sep-09 14:08:00

Heinz, it is so <<searches for a word>> hardgoing isn't it. I am finding this slow gaining/failure to thrive/sleepy feeding really demoralising but conversely, it makes me even more determined to be succesful.

I am feeding DS again which is now 6 times since we woke up. DS also sleeps long stretches in the night (also co-sleeping) which won't be helping his weight.

I am also still switch feeding, can this cause green poos tiktok? My lactation cosultant said it could.

HeinzSight Tue 01-Sep-09 15:07:29

suwoo, we will keep telling each other..........

it will get easier
it will get easier
it will get easier
it will get easier
it will get easier
it will get easier
it will get easier
it will get easier
it will get easier
it will get easier
smile

tiktok Tue 01-Sep-09 15:07:40

Heinz all that sounds promising. Call it a cluster, call it a feed, doesn't matter as long as the baby is feeding a lot

suewoo - yes, switch feeding may well be linked with green poos. It's fine. Green poos show the milk is being hurried through, which can happen if the baby is feeding little and often and getting proportionately less fatty milk - not a problem, really, because the key to weight gain is really volume of milk.

HeinzSight Tue 01-Sep-09 15:21:40

tiktok, interestingly, I;ve looked at my first two childrens' red books, and both of them took about three weeks to regain their birth weight. They were 10lb 10oz and 10lb 4oz and formula fed. DD1 was 'only' 7lb 8oz at birth and re gained her birth weight in less than two weeks. I'm wondering if there is a correlation between large birth weight and longer length of time to regain?

suwoo Tue 01-Sep-09 15:37:05

Hmm funny that. That would also be true of my childrens patterns. Mine are both skinny and were born big.

tiktok Tue 01-Sep-09 15:37:54

Heinz, it's not the length of time taken to regain birthweight that's the issue with you, I think, but the loss of weight in a week.

Slow gain up to birthweight is less concerning - vast majority of babies manage this by 2 weeks old, however they are fed, and the ones that are taking longer are likely to be fine anyway, but it makes sense to check everything is ok.

Loss of weight may reflect inaccuracy of scales, as we've said, but it may not...and it's appropriate to address it by making sure the bf is frequent and effective, which is what you are doing

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