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Contaminated Formula

(55 Posts)
katface Wed 17-Sep-08 21:44:02

www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/sep/17/china

The people who do these things for profit should be shot.

It is not the first time the Chinese have been involved in contaminated formula and or medication.

misi Thu 18-Sep-08 01:18:08

shot? no way. make them drink the formula themselves then sling them away to some dark deep place to contemplate with only more formula for sustinance!!

wehaveallbeenthere Thu 18-Sep-08 01:29:48

Yes, that isn't the only thing China has been doing. There are all the recalls from lead this past year. My listserv@cpsc.gov folder is completely full of recalls on just toys and baby items.
That melamine was also the culprit when all the petfoods were contaminated. It took forever for it to be pulled off the shelves and then it started turning up at the animal shelters.
They have to know what they are doing. The Chinese government will probably shoot them. That's little consolation for those poor babies.

misi Thu 18-Sep-08 11:22:33

earlier this year I had to return some of my sons ''cars'' cars because of lead or something in the paint, he was most upset as 'sarge' was his favourite. took 3 months to get replacements by which time he had changed his liking to Ben10 !!

katface Thu 18-Sep-08 14:21:09

misi my son is obssessed with 4 arms, one of the Ben 10 aliens !

yes, everything is made in china these days, incl. Ben 10 and some formula milk and medication. there was a batch of antibiotics that were contaminated last year, ended up in Europe, left several people dead.

worse still, in China their mw's and healthcare staff don't have the restrictions we have here on formula marketing, so they go around promoting a substance like formula milk that may be inherently unsafe (because of the chemicals it contains) even worse when it is diluted with polluted water and the poured into a plastic bottle containing even more chemicals.

i am not one for capital punishment, but when it involves the most vulnerable (i.e. babies) i am not so opposed to it.

the problem with China is that it is one of the most repressive regime in the owrld, there is little transparency in anything they do, it scares the hell out of me as that more and more products are being made there.

i feel sorry for the Chinese people, they have a crap regime.

misi Thu 18-Sep-08 18:09:12

definately agree katface on china. sad

my sons favourite is 4 arms too hmm although he does rather like the upchuck toy I got him recently that when you press a button at the back... well I think you'll guess what happens grin

katface Thu 18-Sep-08 21:20:54

yeh what is it with the 4 arms ? of course he has 4 eyes too, dh reckons that is because he needs 4 eyes to see his 4 arms !

bonkers, we have lengthy family discussions about these characters grin

not familiar with upchuck........yet !

misi Fri 19-Sep-08 12:10:45

ah, up chuck is great, he eats things, not food but mechanical or that sort of thing, chews them up and spits them out as a type of weapon.

www.amazon.co.uk/Ben-10-Alien-Heroes-Upchuck/dp/B000UV0Y0K

I have ''perfectly normal type conversations'' about the Ben10 series. it is strange the way we talk about them as if it is normal and real?????

the logic in kids is fascinating too, my son oftens tells me how the aliens do things and why and explains it like, well, it was real and perfectly possible to happen.

truth be told though, when my son is not here, I have found myself watching Ben10, accidentally you understand!!

my BIL is getting the complete Ben10 alien force series for my son for his birthday, this is about when Ben 10 is around 20 years old not 10, but not as old as in the odd program of Ben10 where he goes into the future and ben10,000 is there with his son, ken10, oooo, I need to stop watching this show grin

gabygirl Fri 19-Sep-08 12:48:06

The commentary on the BabyMilkAction blog on this story was interesting:

here

The headline is: "Formula deaths in China are no reason for Western gloating"

Basically makes the point that while we all sit here tutting about the babies in China who've become ill, Western multinational formula companies are responsible for the deaths of many thousand more babies in China and other countries as a result of their manipulative marketing activities which persuade mothers not to give their babies the safest milk of all - breastmilk.

Would also want to add that many babies in the UK are hospitalised every year because they're not getting the safest milk, and yet our government happily allows formula companies to regularly flout the international code on formula marketing....... sad

FioFio Fri 19-Sep-08 12:51:07

Message withdrawn

gabygirl Fri 19-Sep-08 13:05:31

The marketing practices of Western formula companies are responsible for many thousands of baby deaths in developing countries every year, so we can't sit here tutting really can we and feeling self righteous?

FioFio Fri 19-Sep-08 13:12:31

Message withdrawn

expatinscotland Fri 19-Sep-08 13:16:37

i agree about the lead. got to be REALLY careful with toys from China.

i never thought about it until reading articles in magazines my mum had sent from teh US about kids getting lead poisoning from toys from there.

gabygirl Fri 19-Sep-08 13:32:05

Nobody's passing the buck. Passing the buck would be saying that we here in the West are responsible for this particular disaster, when obviously we're not.

It's awful what's happened and both the Chinese government and the manufacturers of this product should be held to account.

However, I was flagging up the hypocrisy of the West in wagging its finger at China while allowing its own multinational infant food companies to prosper at the expense of tiny babies around the world.

FioFio Fri 19-Sep-08 13:35:40

Message withdrawn

FinallyGotDyson Fri 19-Sep-08 13:36:25

I started a thread on this the other day...

Those 12 or is it 18 now that have been arrested may well be shot or executed. The law is pretty strict over there. They do have laws in place, they just arent very good at enforcing them. Hence the fact that this has been able to go on since March undetected.

The problem isnt so much with formula companies as it is with the 3 dairies that provide the milk that have been diluting it and adding melamine.

The formula companies should have been testing their product adequately though before allowing it to be put on the shelves.

The formula companies appear to be accountable to no official body when it comes to testing their product, and noting its contents. That is an absolute travesty, IMO.

wehaveallbeenthere Fri 19-Sep-08 16:19:52

I agree with Gabygirl. I don't think there is one country out there (at least developed countries where big business is going on) that doesn't take advantage of the consumer.
I remember way back in the late 70's/early 80's where we had a scare about infants flammable pajamas.
They all got pulled from the shelves but after I went overseas (husband was military) to Germany and started working in the BX just guess where all those flammable pjs turned up? Yes, in the military market.
Oh, just an FYI, those dryer sheets that you throw in to make the laundry smell nice and become less staticclingy. They make your clothes more flammable. That is why you aren't suppose to use them when drying oven mits.
All those toys and food that are recalled don't end up in some magic place. They have to go somewhere so just be on your guard...watch your landfills.

katface Fri 19-Sep-08 17:16:26

Oh dear, i hope i wasn't making China sound like the ONLY culprit.

there are many many irresponisble countries and companies, out there, I have been boycotting Nestle for years. Nestle milk may be safe, but it is a crap company when it comes to marketing, esp. when it comes to poor, vulnerable women around the world.

gaby, I am a supporter of Baby Milk Action (BMA) too and very much support the work they do not just promoting bf, but also the dangers of unsafe formula feeding (i.e adding unsafe chemicals to the powder or the water or the containers). BMA say on their website that they are not anti-formula, they are anti illegal marketing and anti-unsafe feeding.

of course many countries are villians, not just China. Here in the UK our own not always well-regulated marketing and promoting of formula leaves much to be desired.

katface Fri 19-Sep-08 17:21:42

misi - we should start a Ben 10 thread grin

yeh, yeh, yeh, you just watch it without realising, me too : )

wehaveallbeenthere Fri 19-Sep-08 17:32:22

katface, I didn't take it that way. Does the BMA regulate what the mothers eat? I have no idea if they screen mothers like they do people who donate blood for plasma, although it is probably just as important (IMO).
There are so many foods that are supposed to be good for you but have health risks now too..we just had a listing on MSN about 10 foods that you thought were good but aren't because of the mercury or other levels in them. Some of them are foods I eat everyday and the alternative foods are ones I haven't eaten in years and some I've never heard of. It's a frightening revelation when you find out what you are putting in your mouth these days.
Okay, I'm out, enjoy your Ben10!

katface Fri 19-Sep-08 17:55:45

wehave - that is a good question. i think BMA are not so concerned about what gets into breastmilk, but of course people like LLL and other bf orgs. talk about the dangers of chemicals that can get into breastmilk.

it is important that bf mums don't think that what they eat will be dangerous to their babies. breastmilk is safe, even with the few chemicasl that WILL get into your milk as a result of the food you eat and what you put on your body, the risks are small.

i totally get your logic though, because some of what a mother eats will get into her bloodstream and into the baby. that is why it is important to be careful about what meds. we take when bf.

if any one is concerned about this, please check the www.kellymom.com website, it has a detailed list of what meds. are safe when bf.

as for food, i guess unless you are eating vast quantities of mercury laden fish, there is not that much danger when bf. as most foods are safe.

chemicals we put on our bodies also get into breastmilk, in small quantities though. i gave up on perfume and hairdyes and some other things with masses of chemicals in when i was bf. even now although i no longer bf, i have become much more aware of chemicals in beauty products, shampoos, etc. i tend to buy organic products or stuff with fewer chemicals in them. i buy only organic shampoos and soaps, etc for ds.

wehaveallbeenthere Fri 19-Sep-08 19:00:52

katface, while I was waiting for a reply on another site (am surfing before lunch) I found this...please tell me what you think.
www.alternet.org/environment/46061 and I hope it comes through...it talks about teflon and other chemicals that are now found in the human bloodstream and how long it takes for the body to get to a half-life with them.
I know my mother was very excited about Teflon and Scotchguard at the time. She was also not so happy when those pans started to breakdown.
Although I have never been tested for these...I guess you would have to test specifically for them like they test for specific Hep C but not A, I wonder if this has any effect on the growing number of autistic (umbrella term because we've tested for lots of things and not found any yet in my youngest) children. K, now am really out. Laters.
If it doesn't come through my apologies as I'm really not well acquainted with a computer.

katface Fri 19-Sep-08 20:49:27

wehave - that is bloody scarey stuff. i am such a fan of teflon, my mum used it when we were kids and so do i still, i fry almost everything in teflon pans, because it is non-stick shock will be switiching to
stainless steel i guess in the hope that steel doesn't leak chemicals ?

i don't know about autism, i read some research on it which suggested autistic children have at some stage in infancy had leaky guts (sorry don't know the medical term) which has allowed more chemicals to get into their bloodstream. but this is not conclusive. i am not certain about the link with vaccines either, as this too has been inconclusive.

i am convinced that the reason there are so many types of cancers and other fatal diseases is due to chemicals. my mother passed away 2 years ago after an 18 year battle with Parkinson's Disease. Of course Parkinson's does not kill you, but it had weakened her substantially for her age. She died at the young age of 67.

There has been no direct link to chemicals, but they think that people with susceptible genes who come into contact with certain chemicals are more prone to Parkinson's.

wehaveallbeenthere Fri 19-Sep-08 22:00:15

Katface, my father died of accelerated alzheimers. They never confirmed it was Alz as you have to do an autopsy to confirm it. They did test for other things (I'm told this but never saw any of the tests myself as I don't live in the same state anymore).
My saying the autism diagnosis is an "umbrella term" is because a neurologist can diagnose as autism and you can test and find everything for cause such as fragile x or rhys-syndrome, etc. They also put more specifics such PDD and other because of the rainbow of symptoms and degree of this perplexing phenomenon.
60 Minutes (Diagnosis Austism) shows a clip of them trying to figure out a way to definitely diagnosis that a child is autistic. They don't know enough about it.
I have a friend that has a father with Parkinsons. I'm probably wrong as I've gone through so much research trying to find something to change the outcome of my father but didn't they discover the treatment for Parkinsons by doing experiments on drug addicts. They overdosed on heroin or something and it burnt up the part of their brain that produces L-Dopa (Dopamine) and their symptoms resembled the advanced stages of Parkinsons.
I'm so sorry for your loss. My father shouldn't have shown any symptoms until his 80's. I'm told he was hinting at it (one of his doctors said this to one of my syblings) in his 50's. When he had an eye operation it became apparent something was wrong...it took him in two years.
I'm throwing out my teflon pans too. Small wonder my friends think I'm crazy because I am a fanatic with all the chemical evidence I find (usually by accident) and can't help but shout it to anyone that will listen. They get tired of it and close their ears. I guess if it changes (for the better) the outcome of just one it is worth the label to me. I'm considering getting a frog pond. They are the environmental equivalent to the canary in the coalmine.
Have a great weekend katface. I'll be back Monday.

katface Fri 19-Sep-08 22:20:15

wehave - so sorry to hear about your loss too. alz. is absolutley terrible. i knew someone whose mother got it in her 40's, she does not recognise her own children.

i still have not recovered from my beautiful mother's death.

yes, Parkinson's results from lack of L-Dopa in the brain. I spent years reading books and articles on it. There is no known cure, although implants with embryo cells have been very effective in the advanced stages. Mum refused to have brain surgery.

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